;)
Tuesday
Feb142023
February 14, 2023
Afternoon/Evening Update:
Alan Feuer, et al., of the New York Times: "Federal prosecutors overseeing the investigation into ... Donald J. Trump's handling of classified documents are seeking to pierce assertions of attorney-client privilege and compel one of his lawyers to answer more questions before a grand jury, according to two people.... The prosecutors have sought approval from a federal judge to invoke what is known as the crime-fraud exception, which allows them to work around attorney-client privilege when they have reason to believe that legal advice or legal services have been used in furthering a crime. The fact that prosecutors invoked the exception in a sealed motion to compel the testimony of the lawyer, M. Evan Corcoran, suggests that they believe Mr. Trump or his allies might have used Mr. Corcoran's services in that way.... After his [recent] appearance in front of the grand jury, Mr. Corcoran received notice that the Justice Department was seeking to use the exception to break through his assertions of privilege [on certain questions]...."
Charlie Savage of the New York Times: "The Biden administration has agreed to brief top congressional leaders at the end of this month about the classified documents that were improperly in the custody of ... Donald J. Trump, President Biden and former Vice President Mike Pence, officials said on Tuesday. The deal for a Justice Department briefing with the so-called Gang of Eight, a select group of House and Senate members with whom the most sensitive intelligence is shared, may ease long-simmering tensions over bipartisan demands by the Senate Intelligence Committee to see the files. Still, the briefing would include only the top two members of the committee and not its rank-and-file members.... And while the Justice Department has agreed to reveal additional information about the nature of the records to the Gang of Eight, it is resisting providing access to the documents themselves, which it considers key evidence in continuing investigations. Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, the panel's chairman, Senator Mark Warner, Democrat of Virginia, said the details of what would be shared remained 'a work in progress.'"
Justin Gomez & Alexandra Hutzler of ABC News: "White House spokesperson John Kirby said Tuesday the intelligence community is 'considering as a leading explanation' that the three objects shot down over the weekend 'could just be balloons tied to some commercial or benign purpose.' But Kirby told reporters the U.S. is still not able to call them anything other than 'objects' at this point, adding that officials are 'pretty comfortable' ruling out that the objects belonged to the U.S. government." MB: If these UFOs were legitimately floating the friendly skies, wouldn't the owners would squawk, in the form of a lawsuit, for having their expensive projects shot down? ~~~
~~~ Update: Michael Shear & Karou Demirjian of the New York Times: [John Kirby] "said that no company or other organization had contacted the government to say they were the owners of the objects that were shot down.... Senator Mark Warner, a Virginia Democrat who is the chairman of the committee, said the government's tracking of airborne objects launched for legitimate purposes needs to be improved.... Mr. Warner said the administration needed to be 'much more aggressive' about ensuring 'a much better notification process with the authorities' to register legitimate scientific, weather and other craft so officials would know which outliers were potentially cause for alarm."
Amy Wang & Adrian Blanco of the Washington Post: "The Senate on Tuesday confirmed President Biden's 100th judicial nominee, marking a significant milestone in Democrats' efforts to remake the courts, after ... Donald Trump filled more than 200 judicial openings during his term in office.... On Monday night, the Senate confirmed Cindy K. Chung to be the U.S. circuit judge for the 3rd Circuit. On Tuesday, in a 54-45 vote, the Senate confirmed Gina R. Mendez-Miró to be the U.S. district judge for the District of Puerto Rico." MB: Take a look at the diversity chart embedded in the article. Not a fair comparison because Clinton served eight years & Biden only two, but Biden has appointed only five white men; Clinton appointed 197.
Amy Wang of the Washington Post: "Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) on Tuesday announced she would not seek reelection in 2024, putting to rest uncertainty over whether she would seek a sixth full term as the oldest sitting senator. Feinstein, 89, said she would instead focus on accomplishing 'as much for California as I can through the end of next year' when her term ends.... Two California Democrats -- Reps. Katie Porter, 49, and Adam B. Schiff, 62 -- have already launched campaigns to fill Feinstein's seat. Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Calif.), 76, has told colleagues that she intends to run for the Senate seat as well." CNN's report is here.
Josh Marshall of TPM: "... Republicans are now aghast that anyone would be claiming they want to cut Social Security. But last year the Republican Study Committee -- a House caucus which includes about 75% of all House Republicans -- released a proposed 2023 budget which included basically every kind of Social Security cut on offer. The Blueprint to Save America proposed raising the eligibility age at first to 70 and then higher if and when life expectancy goes up; it proposed cutting (or in their words 'modernizing') the benefit formula for everyone currently 54 and under; means-testing Social Security benefits; including work requirements for some Social Security beneficiaries; and allowing people to divert payroll taxes into private investment accounts -- aka 'retirement freedom.'... RSC members are out hitting the airwaves now claiming that none of this ever happened. In fact, new RSC Chair Rep. Kevin Hern (OK), who oversaw the creation of the Blueprint, says this: 'There is NO Republican in Washington, DC, in the House of Representatives or the Senate, that wants to CUT the benefits for seniors on Social Security and Medicare. That's a falsehood. That's a lie.'"
Alex Griffing of Mediaite: "... Donald Trump had been widely discussing with 'close associates' ahead of his 2024 presidential campaign bringing back the death penalty, expanding the execution methods used by the federal government, and even broadcasting executions as a means to deter violent crime and drug dealers, Rolling Stone reported on Tuesday, citing multiple sources close to Trump.... 'Trump has talked about bringing back death by firing squad, by hanging, and, according to two of the sources, possibly even by guillotine. He has also, sources say, discussed group executions.'" MB: I oppose the death penalty, but if whatever will be will be, I can think of one traitor we could use to test the guillotine, even though the subject I have in mind is kind of a no-neck. And yes, in the national interest, broadcast the execution.
Dan Mangan of CNBC: "A New York appeals court panel on Tuesday upheld a $110,000 fine on ... Donald Trump that a judge imposed last spring after he was found in contempt for failing to turn over documents to the state attorney general's office as part of an investigation of his company. The panel of five justices ruled that Trump's contempt fine for not complying with a subpoena for the records was a 'proper exercise' of the discretionary power of Manhattan Supreme Court Judge Arthur Engoron. The panel also said the fine of $10,000 per day 'was not excessive or otherwise improper, under the particular circumstances.'"
~~~~~~~~~~
Balloonapalooza:
Rebecca Shabad of NBC News: "The Biden administration is forming an interagency group with the goal of addressing the recent spate of objects in the skies above North America, the White House announced Monday. 'The president, through his national security adviser, has today directed an interagency team to study the broader policy implications for detection, analysis, and disposition of unidentified aerial objects that pose either safety or security risks,' National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said at a White House press briefing. 'Every element of the government will redouble their efforts to understand and mitigate these events,' he added." (Also linked yesterday afternoon.)
Zachary Cohen & Jeremy Herb of CNN: "The unidentified flying object shot down in Canadian airspace on Saturday appeared to be a 'small, metallic balloon with a tethered payload below it,' according to a Pentagon memo sent to lawmakers on Monday and obtained by CNN. The memo offers the first official details of one of the three objects shot down in recent days that was previously described as a 'cylindrical object.' The object crossed near 'US sensitive sites' before it was shot down, the memo said. Defense officials also wrote in the memo to lawmakers that the object shot down over Lake Huron, in Michigan on Sunday, 'subsequently slowly descended' into the water after impact." This confirms what Forrest M. pointed out in yesterday's Comments: that these UFOs are not so much "unidentified flying objects" as they are "unidentified floating objects."
Luis Martinez of ABC News: "A crane ship on the scene where a Chinese surveillance balloon went down in waters off South Carolina has raised from the ocean bottom a significant portion of the balloon's payload, a U.S. official said Monday. Officials have said the payload measured as much as 30-feet-long and had all of [the] craft's tech gear and antennas.... With regard to other object shot down Friday and over the weekend, the official said the U.S. military continues to look for the remnants from the take out of the sky off the coast of Alaska.... The U.S. wants to pinpoint the exact location before it places personnel in dangerous icy conditions, the official said. A Navy P-8 search plane was in the sky looking for debris. Concerning the object shot down over Canada, the official said, that country's government is taking the lead but has not yet located the debris. And about the object shot down Sunday afternoon over Lake Huron in Michigan, the official said, the U.S. Coast Guard and Canadian authorities are still looking for the debris that landed on water." (Also linked yesterday.)
Lily Quo of the Washington Post: "China's Foreign Ministry on Monday said the United States has sent at least 10 unsanctioned balloons into Chinese airspace since last year, as the two countries feud over a Chinese airship discovered and shot down by the U.S. military this month. The United States denied the allegation.... Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin said in a press briefing that it was 'common' for U.S. high-altitude balloons to fly into other countries' airspace." (Also linked yesterday afternoon.)
Victoria Guida & Ben White of Politico: "President Joe Biden will tap Federal Reserve Vice Chair Lael Brainard for the White House's top economic policy job as the U.S. braces for a high-stakes fight over the debt ceiling and a possible recession, according to two administration officials. Brainard will replace Brian Deese as director of the National Economic Council, becoming the first woman to head the agency since 1996. Jared Bernstein, a longtime adviser to Biden, will likely become the president's chief economist, according to the officials...."
Stephanie Lai of the New York Times: "President Biden on Monday fired J. Brett Blanton, the federal official responsible for the maintenance and operation of the Capitol complex, amid bipartisan calls for his resignation, after an investigative report accusing him of misusing his position and revelations that he avoided the Capitol during the Jan. 6, 2021, attack. Mr. Blanton, who was appointed in 2019 as the architect of the Capitol, had been under scrutiny for more than a year after a report by the inspector general of his office in 2021 documented evidence supporting serious allegations against Mr. Blanton, including that he had misused his office vehicle, misled investigators and impersonated a police officer on multiple occasions. But concerns among lawmakers in both parties intensified at a 90-minute hearing on Friday in which Mr. Blanton gave noncommittal and at times contradictory answers about his conduct, including his decision to stay away from the Capitol during the Jan. 6 riot. On Monday morning, Speaker Kevin McCarthy said on Twitter that Mr. Blanton 'no longer has my confidence to continue in his job,' and should resign or be removed by Mr. Biden." (Also linked yesterday afternoon.) ~~~
~~~ Marie: Don't let that passive voice "was appointed" fool you. Blanton "was appointed" by Donald Trump, although it does not appear he had any relationship with Trump.
Paul Krugman of the New York Times: "... many Republicans do >want to eviscerate [Social Security and Medicare]. To believe otherwise requires both willful naïveté and amnesia about 40 years of political history.... First, Republicans have tried to make deep cuts to Social Security and Medicare every time they thought there might be a political window of opportunity. Second, on each occasion they've done exactly what they're doing now: claiming that Democrats are engaged in smear tactics when they describe G.O.P. plans using exactly the same words Republicans themselves used.... Soon after taking office [in 1981] Ronald Reagan proposed major cuts to Social Security.... [When Newt Gingrich shut down the government in 1995, his] key demand was that President Bill Clinton agree to large cuts in Medicare and Medicaid. After Republicans gained control of the House in 2010, Paul Ryan began pushing for major cuts in spending. One key element was converting Medicare ... to a system offering people fixed sums of money to be applied to the purchase of private insurance.... Before becoming Florida's governor, [Ron] DeSantis enthusiastically endorsed Ryan's Medicare voucher proposal and declared that allowing seniors to retire in their late 60s was 'unsustainable.'"
Kyle Cheney & Josh Gerstein of Politico: "Mike Pence is preparing to resist a grand jury subpoena for testimony about ... Donald Trump's push to overturn the 2020 election, according to two people familiar with the former vice president's thinking. Pence's decision to challenge Special Counsel Jack Smith's request has little to do with executive privilege, the people said. Rather, Pence is set to argue that his former role as president of the Senate -- therefore a member of the legislative branch -- shields him from certain Justice Department demands. Pence allies say he is covered by the constitutional provision that protects congressional officials from legal proceedings related to their work -- language known as the 'speech or debate' clause.... The legal question of whether the vice president draws the same 'speech-or-debate' protections as members of Congress remains largely unsettled, and constitutional scholars say Pence raising the issue will almost certainly force a court to weigh in....
"DOJ has, notably, argued in civil litigation that the 'speech or debate' clause protects the vice president when working on Senate business. The department explicitly asserted in 2021 that Pence was shielded by the 'speech or debate' clause in a civil lawsuit related to his role presiding over Congress' Jan. 6 session.... [But] 'The literal language is that this applies to "senators and representatives,"' said [Neil] Eggleston, who advised former President Barack Obama from 2014 to 2017." MB: However the courts shake this out, pence's decision to fight the subpoena is a chicken-shit, self-serving move.
Danny Hakim & Richard Fausset of the New York Times: "A Georgia judge said on Monday that he would disclose parts of a grand jury report later this week that details an investigation into election interference by ... Donald J. Trump and his allies, though he would keep the jury's specific recommendations secret for now. In making his ruling, the judge, Robert C.I. McBurney of Fulton County Superior Court, said the special grand jury raised concerns in its report 'that some witnesses may have lied under oath during their testimony.' But the eight-page ruling included few other revelations about the report, the contents of which have been carefully guarded, with the only physical copy in the possession of the district attorney's office." Politico's report is here. (Also linked yesterday afternoon.)
Presidential Race 2020. Dylan Wells of the Washington Post: "Nikki Haley, who served as U.N. ambassador and governor of South Carolina, announced Tuesday that she is running for president, becoming the first major rival to officially challenge Donald Trump for the GOP nomination in 2024. Haley released an online video saying, 'It's time for a new generation of leadership.... I'm Nikki Haley, and I'm running for president.'"
Beyond the Beltway
Florida Man Gets Temp Job That Pays $700K + Benefits. Jacob Ogles of Florida Politics: "Richard Corcoran has been offered a contract with a nearly $699,000 salary to become New College of Florida's interim President. The board of trustees for the Sarasota university approved a major compensation package weeks after firing former President Patricia Okker. In addition to the hefty salary, the school will offer an $84,000 housing allowance and a $12,000 auto allowance. That puts the entire package worth around $795,000 to lead a school with about 700 students enrolled.... The school will begin a national search for President as well, and Corcoran is expected to pursue the long-term position.... Student Trustee Grace Keenan notably raised Sunshine Law concerns about the hiring. Corcoran's lobbying firm announced his hire as the interim President of New College before trustees met. She said the sequence of events 'gives the impression' the board was doing business behind closed doors."
Way Beyond
Israel. Patrick Kingsley & Isabel Kershner of the New York Times: "A battle over the future of Israel's judiciary -- perceived by many as a fight for the soul of Israel's democracy -- grew more fraught and fractious on Monday as roughly 100,000 protesters from across the country filled the streets outside Parliament in Jerusalem in one of the biggest-ever demonstrations in the city.... The demonstrators gathered to oppose a sweeping judicial overhaul proposed by Israel's new government -- the most right-wing and religiously conservative in the country's history -- that has bitterly divided Israelis. The changes, envisioned by the governing coalition led by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, would reduce the Supreme Court's ability to revoke laws passed in Parliament and give the government greater influence over who gets to be a judge.... To critics, the proposals would instead damage Israeli democracy by giving too much power to the government; endangering minority rights; and removing limits on Mr. Netanyahu's ability to enact legislation that might allow him to escape punishment in his ongoing corruption trial. Mr. Netanyahu denies that the proposals are for his personal benefit." MB: Yeah, even if it happens to work out that way.
Ukraine, et al.
The New York Times' live updates of developments Tuesday in Russia's war on Ukraine are here. The Guardian's live updates for Tuesday are here. The Guardian's summary report is here.
Yasmeen Abutaleb & John Hudson of the Washington Post: "As the first anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine nears, U.S. officials are telling Ukrainian leaders they face a critical moment to change the trajectory of the war, raising the pressure on Kyiv to make significant gains on the battlefield while weapons and aid from the United States and its allies are surging. Despite promises to back Ukraine 'as long as it takes,' Biden officials say recent aid packages from Congress and America's allies represent Kyiv's best chance to decisively change the course of the war. Many conservatives in the Republican-led House have vowed to pull back support, and Europe's long-term appetite for funding the war effort remains unclear."
Andrew Kramer of the New York Times: "Poorly trained Russian soldiers captured by Ukraine describe being used as cannon fodder by commanders throwing waves of bodies into an assault.... The New York Times interviewed ... Russians at a detention center near Lviv in Ukraine's west, where many captured enemy soldiers are sent.... The soldiers ... were recruited from penal colonies by the private military company known as Wagner.... Using infantry to storm trenches, redolent of World War I, brings high casualties. So far, the tactic has been used primarily by Wagner in the push for Bakhmut.... Russia's regular army this month began recruiting convicts in exchange for pardons, shifting the practice on the Russian side in the war from the Wagner private army to the military.... On Sunday, the British defense intelligence agency said that over the past two weeks, Russia had probably suffered its highest rate of casualties since the first week of the invasion." (Also linked yesterday afternoon.)
News Ledes
CNBC: "Inflation turned higher to start 2023, as rising shelter, gas and fuel prices took their toll on consumers, the Labor Department reported Tuesday. The consumer price index, which measures a broad basket of common goods and services, rose 0.5% in January, which translated to an annual gain of 6.4%. Economists surveyed by Dow Jones had been looking for respective increases of 0.4% and 6.2%."
New York Times: "A gunman killed three people and wounded five others at Michigan State University on Monday, setting off a police manhunt and forcing students to hide in their dormitories at one of America's largest university campuses.The gunman, a 43-year-old man, eventually died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, police said.... The five wounded people were in critical condition as of early Tuesday morning and were being treated at Sparrow Hospital.... The suspect had no connection to the university...." This is a liveblog. ~~~
~~~ CNN's report is here. ~~~
~~~ Marie: The purpose of the Second Amendment, not clearly specified therein, is to allow Americans -- especially if they're white men -- to express their personal difficulties by randomly murdering people they don't know, then killing themselves. Thank you, Supremes, for clearing that up. And quit complaining that you also are in danger of being attacked by unhappy gunmen.
Share Article
Comments for this entry have been disabled. Additional comments may not be added to this entry at this time.
Reader Comments (18)
I've brought forward this comment, posted to yesterday's page early this morning:
By Akhilleus
Biden is forming an interagency group to look into these floating objects to understand what they are, where they come from, and what they do, with an eye toward national security implications, if any and to make determinations about how to proceed should others appear. An entirely reasonable project for a responsible administration to undertake.
WWFD?
What Would Fatty Do?
First he’d check to see what fantasies the idiots on right wing extremist web sites are saying. Cuz that’s always his first stop for re-lie-able infamashun.
Then he’d declare this a job for his Flash Gordon space cadets, a job costing tens of millions (all the better for the grift) run by people who have no experience and no real goal other than to find some way of supporting whatever made up shit Trump deems helpful to him and useful for attacking his enemies.
The actual objects in the sky won’t matter at all. The place could look like London during the blitz but if he couldn’t make cash or political capital out of it, fuggedaboutit. It must be Hunter Biden. Or Hillary.
Or—and this is another very real possibility—he’d do…nothing. But use the presence of these objects to go after his perceived enemies using conspiracy theories concocted by morons in their basements cleaning the guns and dreaming of white supremacy Armageddon.
Wait…I’m pretty sure I just described the MO of the GQP house committees investigating investigations and fantasy bullshit.
Funny how that works.
-- Akhilleus
I fail to see the benefit of sending over a spy balloon if it's going
to be 10 miles or so above the earth.
I can just go to GoogleMaps and see up close and personal just
about any place I want to. The last time I used street-view to look
at the front of my house I noticed that one of the upstairs shutters
was cracked. That wouldn't be visible from 10 miles up.
Or maybe they're looking for huuuuuge crowds of people so they'll
know that trump is down there having one of his rallies.
One would think that spies would be easier and more accurate. I'm
sure we have them here already, and everyone knows where the
military installations and war machinery plants are anyway.
Don't the Chinese know how to use the Googles?
@Forrest Morris: I'd guess the spy balloons have better cameras than Google Earth. More important, they apparently can pick up some audio and/or computer communications that satellites can't detect from high in the sky. So that's why they balloons are flying over military installations. In addition, they're a lot cheaper to build & launch than satellites, so even if a few get shot out of the sky, they probably save money. And I expect they're communicating back to base in real time, so they may collect some useful data before they are spotted and shot down.
Marie wrote: “However the courts shake this out, pence's decision to fight the subpoena is a chicken-shit, self-serving move.”
The reason is simple. pence IS a chicken-shit, self-serving asshole.
This whole egg-zecutive privilege canard is bullshit. First, this is not a civil matter. This is a criminal matter, and in fact, the most serious criminal matter in the nation’s history. Here we have a president* working night and day to overthrow the duly elected government. He mounted and fomented a violent insurrection during which people died, were killed, and seriously wounded.
All to keep his tiny, baby hands on the levers of power after the people told him to tell his story walkin’. pence’s testimony in this most egregious of criminal actions on the part of the executive—and the legislative branches, at least by those who rushed to aid in this treason—involves perhaps the only significant direct, one-on-one interactions with the architect of this violent coup attempt, Donald Trump, who, like always, will try to hide, dissemble, and obfuscate his way out of responsibility and proper punishment. He was, without question, the prime mover in all of this, but now he scurries for protection, demanding that others shield him from the law.
He tried to have the half-pence murdered! And still this sniveling little creep will protect him, purely so the MAGA horde won’t hold him accountable if he tries to run for an office for which he is, by his latest act of self-serving servility, demonstrating a startling unfitness.
He has direct, first-hand evidence that Trump cajoled him to engage in illegal activity to prevent the peaceful transfer of power. Direct evidence that should slap the cuffs on the fat traitor, or at the very least keep his fat ass permanently removed from any elected office.
But little mikey will go down the path taken by too many cowardly rats. He could cement a certain place of decency, at least partially wiping away his sycophantic subservience to the most crooked and purely evil holder of that office, by testifying truthfully before a grand jury.
But he won’t. Because he’s still a self-serving asshole, as he’s always been. His uncharacteristic moment of responsibility in upholding his oath of office is shown, at last, to have been a weird anomaly, distinctly atypical of a mealy mouthed little twit who strives with his last breath to back criminals so as to save face with their drooling and hateful supporters.
Disgusting little man.
Forrest,
To pick up on Marie’s comment, cameras on spy satellites hovering at an altitude of 200 miles have a resolution of about 2 meters. That means objects around 6 ft in size can be easily identified. But that was some years ago. I’m guessing military satellites today can zoom in on objects 3 ft or less. And that’s from 200 miles up.
Those same cameras floating over your house 10 miles up could probably read the time off your watch while you were out trimming the rose bushes (this is why I leave my watch in the house when tending my knockouts).
Technology marches on. Or in this case, floats along.
This J. Brett Blanton guy…what a piece of work. But he is just a microcosmic bit of crooked blubber of the sort that populated the federal government during the Trump Debacle. As Marie suggests, J.Brett might not have had a close or direct connection with the Fat Fascist, but it’s indicative of the sort he was always looking for, a slimy, dishonest, easily manipulated creep who could bend to the will of the Dear Leader if such was required.
Can you imagine Trump ever appointing a decent, honest, hard working individual who took his job seriously and not just as a ticket to the Grifter’s Ball that was the Trump Administration*?
But the J. Brett thing reminds of a funny bit of business from one of my all-time favorite movies, John Ford’s “Young Mr. Lincoln”. The story revolves around an actual trial in which Lincoln worked as a defense attorney (much fictionalized for the film).
While questioning a supposed witness to a murder, Lincoln, played by Henry Fonda, asks this guy, one J. Palmer Cass, why he “parts his name in the middle”? J. Palmer, a weaselly sort played by Ford company regular, Ward Bond, sniffs haughtily “Well, Mr. Lincoln, I guess I can call myself whatever I want!”
“Sure” says Lincoln, “but if it’s okay with you, I’ll just call you Jack Cass”. Courtroom erupts in laughter. The trial proceeds. A few minutes later, the judge shouts “Jack Ass! I just got it!”
Hahaha.
By the way, if you’ve never seen it, it’s a fabulous movie. Legendary Russian film director Sergei Eisenstein was once asked if there were any films he wished he’d directed. He picked this one.
"Every now and then I like to lean out my window, look up and smile for a satellite picture."
-- Steven Wright
Three points about the law? practice? shielding MOC who are doing their work.
First, whatever that law-practice is, it seems unrelated to executive privilege.
Two, I can't see how conversations with TFG about plans to subvert Congress from doing its work (pro forma certification of a presidential vote) would qualify as the "work" Pence was supposed to do.
Three, even if those conversations were somehow determined to be "work," because, as Akhilleus points out, they would, per precedent, not be shielded because they was criminal in intent.
There. That wasn't so hard, was it?
Just in case anyone would like to watch the scene i mentioned…
https://youtu.be/DLWNP9q4Dys
It should start at the right spot, otherwise slide on up to 1:13:00.
The Lincoln mythology is deep seated at this point but it’s fun to watch Henry Fonda’s impersonation. I’ve read that Lincoln had a rather high pitched voice, not the sonorous baritone of Fonda’s delivery. But no matter. It’s the best we can hope for at this point.
I wonder what kind of humor Abe could derive from spy balloons floating over the present day Land of Lincoln. Smile for the camera, Mr. Lincoln.
@Ken Winkes: Yeah but. What appears to be more-or-less the case is that only one of the two participants in the conversation was contemplating or in the midst of committing a crime. In theory and likely in practice, in at least two of these conversations, pence was explaining to Trump what the veep's Constitutional duties were and telling Trump why -- because of the veep's limited responsibilities in certifying the electors -- what Trump wanted him to do was unlawful and unconstitutional. So in that sense, pence was doing his duty both in a sort of Congressional sense and in the vice-presidential sense of advising the president*.
If you forget about Trump and think of a normal president, then it's easy to imagine -- as I'm sure happens -- where a president asks his advisors, for instance, "Can I mint a $3 trillion coin to get around the debt limit?" and a White House lawyer pipes up and says, "That would be against the law." This is a legitimate Q&A, IMO, and executive privilege -- if executive privilege is a thing at all -- should apply.
So if all Trump said was, "Why won't you do this, mike?" this would be a conversation in which no crime was committed. If -- as is more likely -- Trump said, "I know we won, so you have to do this, mike," then a crime was going on, the crime-fraud exception would apply, and mike should speak up.
This is a sort-of catch-22 in which you have to find out what Trump said before you can decide whether or not executive privilege can be invoked. Maybe a judge can just do that in closed session. I don't know.
Lets not forget what Pence's brother said:
"He's just like our father––no matter what. Mike was always right and there was no way to argue otherwise."
Mother is hovering over him now, giving him succor and candy apples to calm him down. She's pissed she never got to measure those drapes in the oval office––oh, the travails of life and she prayed so hard!
You make things so complicated, Marie.
But since we have the Pretender on tape telling Pence to "do the right thing" (IOW, the wrong thing) in front of thousands, and since he knew by that time there was no legal justification for Pence acting in any but a ceremonial role, I don't see how the criminal intent that would obviate claims of executive privilege or any that might adhere to a MOC doing his or her work could be denied.
But I've demonstrated repeatedly there are many things I don't see...
Whadayamean? Broadaxes and tree stumps won't be allowed?
For a while there was considerable concern about intent on the part of the First Traitor. For instance, if he truly believed the election was somehow stolen, or if it was difficult or impossible to prove that he thought otherwise, it would be a daunting task to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that he was defrauding the US government and voters with his Big Lie. I, for one, never really bought this line of reasoning. If I robbed a bank, would a jury find me not guilty because of my stated belief that all that money actually belonged to me?
But the intent thing is by the boards. Plenty of people told that fat fuck he lost. His AG for one (so he says), but more importantly, the report issued by the investigators Trump hired to prove that he actually won.
They didn’t. They Couldn’t. Because he lost. Bigly.
So the fiasco of his appearance on January 6, screaming that ge absolutely won, that they must go to the Capitol, his attempt to get pence to stop the certification, the fake elector schemes, and his plot to force officials in Georgia to manufacture 11,000 odd votes (odd is the word) all fall under the category of fraud. He knew A, absolutely, but he sold his thugs on B.
This is fraud. Clear cut fraud.
The half-pence’s testimony would be icing on the cake, but it sure looks like they have a pure, provable, and undeniable case of fraud here.
Whether Garland sees it that way is another thing. Regarding doing anything about it, he’s checking with his mentor, Hamlet, Prince of Denmark.
“To indict or not to indict, that is the question…”
What is the solution, oh Magic 8 ball? “Answer cloudy, ask again later.”
Geez, I’m kinda liking Unwashed’s idea of an axe wielding executioner. Think Trump would tip him to do a good job and not miss? Fuggedaboutit.
Hey, and while we’re at it, how about drawing and quartering? Admittedly, they’d have to get dray horses to hoist that fat load off the ground.
Just try to imagine the mind of someone who thinks bringing back firing squads, public hangings and beheadings (he’d have the support of his Arab pals for that), and group executions will appeal to a majority of Americans.
I’m guessing these ideas would have great appeal to HIS supporters who no doubt envision such a fate exclusively for non-whites and non-evangelical Christians. You can just picture the jollity ensuing among his white supremacist supporters at the prospect of 20 or 30 BLM members being hung together on a giant gallows constructed on the White House lawn. Cocktails in the Rose Garden immediately afterward.
But I am actually in favor of broadcasting executions. If we are putting people to death in our name then people should have to watch these horrible spectacles. Unfortunately, under Trump, someone like Fox would hire Junior as color commentator. “Look at prisoner number 12! The guy is spazzing out! He’s still alive! Oh man, this is great! How long can he hold on?”
Oh, and once again, Fatty bases one of his brainstorms on incorrect data. Executions, or the possibility thereof, do not deter violent criminals. Never have. Executions are all about vengeance, revenge.
Oh yeah, and this idea of executing drug dealers? This, as far as I know, has never happened. Prosecutors would have to tie deaths directly to a single individual. In fact, there’s already a law on the books that allow for this but federal prosecutors have never used it. Trump is talking here about police state shit. But if he’s serious, then let’s string up the fucking Sackler family for the opioid crisis they personally and greedily initiated. I’d watch those fuckers being executed. Where’s the popcorn?
Also (once again…) Fatty’s contention that killing one drug dealer would save 500 lives demonstrates an abysmal ignorance of the drug problem at its most basic (street) level. You’re an addict? Your dealer gets put away (executed or not)? You find a new one.
More stupidity.
Oh, wow. Where has the time gone?
Today is the 47th anniversary of my first sampling of the evil weed. I haven't stopped since and have none-the-less proved to be a productive member of society.
I don't need a dealer - I grow my own. It is legal in some states.
Unwashed,
Producing your own means you don’t have to spend time cleaning your bag of twigs and seeds. Good idea.
Ganja was never really my thing except the occasional one hitter during a band rehearsal, but I played with guys who could smoke like volcanoes and still play perfectly well. We’d head out to the van between sets and someone would fire one up. I learned pretty early on to keep hits to a bare minimum. Otherwise we get back on stage and I’m looking down at my keyboard or guitar and thinking “Hey…my fingers are moving but I have no idea what they’re doing!”