;)
The Commentariat -- Dec. 15, 2012
The President's Weekly Address:
... a reiteration of what he said yesterday, Obama includes the remark about "meaningful action ... regardless of politiics."
We’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent tragedies like this, regardless of the politics. -- President Barack Obama, December 14, 2012
I think we have to be careful about new, suggesting new gun laws. -- Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-Washington), highest-ranking House Republican woman
We ask why there's violence in our schools but we've systematically removed God from our schools. Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage? -- Mike Huckabee
David Remnick of the New Yorker: "Obama told the nation that he reacted to the shootings in Newtown 'as a parent,' ... but what we need most is for him to act as a President, liberated at last from the constraints of elections and their dirty compromises -- a President who dares to change the national debate and the legislative agenda on guns."
Mark Landler & Erica Goode of the New York Times: so what is "meaningful action," Mr. President?
Alex Seitz-Wald of Salon: "A search of the 489 members of Congress on Twitter reveals just four members who even mentioned the word 'gun.' Virtually every lawmaker has put a statement on Twitter expressing their condolences, but only a tiny handful of Democratic House members have dared address the public policy question of how to prevent another tragedy like this."
Juan Cole: "questions I asked myself about the Connecticut school shooting."
Paul Waldman of American Prospect: "ten arguments gun advocates make, and why they're wrong."
Alyssa Rosenberg of Think Progress: "I really want someone who advocates against gun control to balance the scales for me, to go ahead and try to explain to me why the inconvenience suffered by gun owners and prospective gun owners under much tighter restrictions on the purchase of guns and ammunition outweighs the death of children in their classrooms...."
Gail Collins: "We have come to regard ourselves -- and the world has come to regard us -- as a country that's so gun happy that the right to traffic freely in the most obscene quantities of weapons is regarded as far more precious than an American's right to health care or a good education. We have to make ourselves better."
Natalie Jennings of the Washington Post: on "the White House's 'We the People' online petition site..., [this is now a] petition calling on the White House to 'Immediately address the issue of gun control through the introduction of legislation in Congress.' ..." . The petition has more than 39,000 signatures as of 8:15 pm ET. You can sign here.
Scott Keyes of Think Progress: "On Thursday, one day before the tragedy in Connecticut where at least 29 people were killed at an elementary school, the Republican-controlled Michigan legislature passed a bill that would allow people to bring guns into schools." ...
... Melanie Dorsey of the Detroit Free Press has a follow-up, post-Newtown-massacre story, in which various legislators reiterate what a great idea the bill is & how "just one" armed teacher could have haved the children of Newtown. Dorsey reports that Gov. Right-to-Work Snyder hasn't decided whether he'll sign the bill.
Elspeth Reeve of the Atlantic: "The NRA is winning."
Lee Fang in the Nation: "Despite the grassroots façade, there is much evidence to suggest that corporations that profit from unregulated gun use are propping up the NRA's activities.... The Violence Policy Center has estimated that since 2005, gun manufacturers have contributed up to $38.9 million to the NRA.... And like other industry fronts, the NRA is quick to conceal its pro-gun industry policy positions as ideological commitments."
Paul Barrett of Business Week: "If I were running a school or a movie theater or a house of worship, I would hire the highest-quality licensed, armed security available. No Second Amendment issue there." CW: how to pay for additional security? Tax the hell out of guns & ammo. No Second Amendment issue there. We tax gasoline to pay for roads & plane tickets to pay the TSA. No reason not to tax gun owners to pay police.
Robert Pear of the New York Times: "The Obama administration said Friday that more than half the states had rejected its pleas to set up their own health insurance exchanges, dealing a setback to President Obama's hopes that Republicans would join a White House campaign to provide health insurance to all Americans."
Cliff Notes
When Mitch McConnell Is the "Reasonable One." Jonathan Weisman of the New York Times: "A split developing between House Republican leaders and some Senate counterparts who are increasingly open to extending the expiring Bush-era tax cuts only for the middle class is adding to pressure on Speaker John A. Boehner to cut a deficit reduction deal with President Obama."
Eric Lichtblau of the New York Times: AARP "angered many of its own last year when it opened the door for the first time to the possibility of accepting modest cuts in Social Security benefits. Chastened, AARP now appears to have veered back to a hard-line position of opposing any cutbacks in Medicare or Social Security and is seeking to keep those programs off the bargaining table altogether."
Right Wing World
Looking for something else, I came upon this citation from Jim DeMint, who is escaping from the Evil Empire:
America works -- freedom works -- when people have that internal gyroscope that comes from a belief in God and Biblical faith. Once we push that out, you no longer have the capacity to live as a free person without the external controls of an authoritarian government. I've said it often and I believe it -- the bigger government gets, the smaller God gets. As people become more dependent on government, less dependent on God. You cannot have a free society that way.
... Rick Hertzberg has an expanded quote. Hertzberg & I have slightly different interpretations of DeMint's worldview. But it's no wonder DeMint left the government because he sees it as the enemy of god. And it is certainly no wonder that he has done all he could to undermine government. DeMint is an object lesson in why governments fall from within.
News Ledes
Washington Post has published the names of the victims of the Newtown shooting here, with brief bios of or remarks about a few of them. The New York Times has the names on the front page at 8:00 pm ET. ...
... New York Times: "All of the children killed by the gunman during a massacre at a Connecticut elementary school were shot multiple times, the state chief medical examiner said Saturday.... The principal and the school psychologist were shot as they tried to tackle the gunman 'in order to protect her students,' the school superintendent said Saturday.... Adam Lanza, 20, had forced his way into the school, which had a security system requiring visitors to be buzzed in." ...
... AP: "As the world joined Americans in mourning the school massacre in Connecticut, many urged U.S. politicians to honor the 28 victims, especially the children, by pushing for stronger gun control laws. Twitter users and media personalities in the U.K. immediately invoked Dunblane -- a 1996 shooting in that small Scottish town which killed 16 children. That tragedy prompted a campaign that ultimately led to tighter gun controls effectively making it illegal to buy or possess a handgun in the U.K."
Chicago Sun-Times: "President Barack Obama has chosen Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts to be the next secretary of state, a source has told Sun-Times columnist Michael Sneed. His replacement as head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee will be Sen. Robert Menendez...."
New York Times: "Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton suffered a concussion early last week after fainting and striking her head, the State Department disclosed on Saturday.... Mrs. Clinton will not testify as scheduled before a Senate committee investigating the attack on the American diplomatic outpost in Benghazi, Libya, in September.... William J. Burns and Thomas R. Nides, both deputy secretaries of state, will testify in place of Mrs. Clinton." CW: cue the conspiracy theorists.
Here's the Hartford Courant story on the Newtown school killings. ...
... The New York Times "The Lede" is here. An official says the gunman's mother was neither a teacher at the school nor a substitute teacher.
New York Times: "Nelson Mandela, South Africa's ailing former president, had surgery to have gallstones removed on Saturday as he began his second week of hospitalization, the government said."
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Reader Comments (30)
Cathy McMorris Rodgers... right. We have to be careful, clear, and straightforward. So let's start with Ban All Private Gun Ownership, and go from there. Exceptions will be approved by popular (secret ballot) vote only, one at a time in campaign-free elections.
Chart countries, number of guns per capita vs gun deaths per capita and you find a direct correlation between the two. Even though the US is the most heavily armed nation on earth (publicly and privately) it is still an outlier in terms of gun deaths per capital. The biggest difference between the US and the rest of the west is that in other countries people buy guns to hunt game or target shoot or some other 'sporting' use. Americans buy guns to kill people with.
I'm sure as facts emerge there will a hue and cry about Lanza being mentally ill. The real issues of the proliferation of irresponsible and outrageously dangerous gun ownership, gun use and gun carrying will be flummoxed, as it has been in every recent multiple gun murders of innocents, by calls for regulating gun ownership for "mentally ill people." First, mental illness does not automatically render a person dangerous and likely to use a gun. In fact, few people with mental illness are prone to mass killings. There is no mental illness registry with a secondary diagnosis of very f-cking dangerous. No ID bracelet identifying potential mass murderers. If memory serves, most of the recent murderers have not been on meds nor received treatment. I suspect the check box screening for mental illness potentially leading to mass murder would be uniformly checked "none". I'm not sure where a record of mental illness would be obtained unless a person had been placed on an involuntary hold or committed to a state run institution. In any case, the detail of the mental illness would be protected under HIPPA and therefore would serve no purpose except to target yet another group.
So lets dispense with the mental illness shit and deal with the fact we do not provide protection for our citizens - in this case small children. This is not about hunting and its not about protection. The protection argument is a fallacy. Ask any real law enforcement officer and they will explain to you what a danger a citizen with a gun and no training in actual policing/ crisis techniques or experience can render a situation. This is about making money from selling weapons.
There is such great pain and injustice associated with these needless killings that I cannot hold it in my head. It is spilling out on my cheeks. I do know that it is intolerable.
Diane you are right about the mental illness game. Besides patient confidentiality, the reality is that there are a huge number of mentally ill out there who are never formally diagnosed. When friends and family hear about someones horrible behavior they really are surprised. The diagnosis of mental illness gets passed by. Humans suck at truly evaluating others. Admitting that someone important in our lives is a lunatic rarely happens.
And last but not least, there is absolutely no chance that this will change a single gun law.
Besides re-instituting the assault weapons ban, it seems to me the best way to cut down on gun violence is to outlaw ammo. No, seriously. Let hunters keep their arsenals. A hunter should be able to purchase a specified (small) number of bullets with his license, & a judge should review the applications of every damned person who applies for a hunting license. If you apply for a deer-hunting license, you can get you a half-dozen deer-killing bullets. If you want to go quail-hunting with Dick Cheney, you & Dick should be able to buy a little birdshot -- not enough to be shooting up the next guy. If you want to target-practice, no more shooting up cans of peas on the back fence -- you've got to go to a licensed range where the judge can dole out the bullets & make sure you don't leave with any of them.
Oh, how could we afford all this regulation? Why, the sportsmen could pay for it with their license fees!
For personal protection, the laws banning Tasers should be modified. I thought it would be a good idea to own a Taser, but my neighbor in New York state -- a police detective -- told only law enforcement officers were allowed to own them in New York. It's true you can seriously injure or even kill a person with a Taser, but the danger is much less than with a gun. And a Taser is much more effective at disabling an intruder than is a gun. If you can prove to a judge you need a gun for protection, then, again, fine, you could buy a few rounds. But the onus in on the gun owner to make his case, not on the court to disprove it.
Perfect? Nope, but better than the status quo. A big imposition on our "freedom" to conduct shoot-'em-ups. Yup. So what? I can't smoke marijuana in Muskogee, but I can go into most public places there & mow everybody down.
As for a well-regulated militia, okay, fine let's regulate them well. It's in the fucking Constitution.
Marie
P.S. Would some people still murder some other people? Yes, they would. But not so many. I'm fed up with this absurd argument that since you can't stop people from killing each other you should allow everybody to pack heat.
I' m sad to say that every member of Congress except those in a very safe urban district is scared to death of the National Rifle Association, and with good reason. The wing nuts will join the NRA and send any Congressman home that dares to challenge our cowboy mentality.
If no one is looking you can kill anyone here in Florida by claiming you were afraid for your life. We have a gun law written by ALEC.
Perhaps a younger electorate, after many more years of monthly massacres will begin the work of changing our gun laws.
No one in "fly over America" facing reelection will defy the NRA.
Mike Huckabee demonstrates how difficult it can be to determine the difference between a moron and an asshole.
@Cowichan
Is that your opinion or do you have some facts to back that up? Just sayin' Not doubting your what you've posted...just don't want to lose the comment section again..:). BTW its not just us and not always with guns
I'll agree we're way to liberal with gun laws and I find the NRA repugnant. Just saying, to quote Pogo, we have met the enemy and the enemy is us.
Not all that enlightening because it doesn't tell us much that we don't already know about the American public but still think this tells us something about what sane gun policy advocates are up against.
BTW, I know Everett Eclectic, who occasionally vents his spleen in print, very well and he has provided permission to reprint what he sent to the WAPO after listening to Obama's remarks. The replies are reprinted without author's "names" attached.
"EverettEclectic
At least we can be certain of two things about this horrific tragedy:
It would not have happened had the children and teachers been armed and, secondly, we can assume the shooter was a member of a "well-regulated militia," per the language of the Second Amendment.
Reply 1 you want to arm kintergardern children? what a moron
Reply 2 Not true, EverettEclectic-
As one newsman said, ''There is nothing a teacher can do if suddenly a man is standing in her classroom doorway holding a gun. It is too late to make even the slightest move''
And the third said:
"Sarcasm." Look it up."
Hard to craft sane policy on anything when only 33% of the population get it.
Hell of a start to Christmas.
Some food for thought--as if we needed anymore--from Igor Volsky. He reminds us of three separate, but related, gun stories on "Think Progress" today:
"1. Day Before Connecticut Shooting Massacre, Michigan Legislature Passed Bill Allowing Guns In Classrooms
2. White House Responds To Elementary School Shooting: ‘Today Is Not The Day’ To Discuss Gun Laws
3. A Timeline Of Mass Shootings In The US Since Columbine"
Yup! This is the US of A. We must remember to preserve and protect our right to arm bears and elementary school teachers. And to allow guns EVERYWHERE! I am beyond sickened.
For a chart I had in mind this:
http://guncontrol.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/moregunsmoredeaths2012.pdf
I'm not comparing the US with countries like the Congo but with countries with equivalent social order etc.
Americans own 65+ million handguns. It's possible I suppose-quick draw McGraw against a bunny rabbit. I know some hunters carry high powered pistols as backup when hunting dangerous game but the idea of stopping a charging Grizzly with a 44 magnum is fantasy to me. There are some who target shoot with handguns or compete in quickdraw contests. The remaining 64,500,000 handguns are for protection against fellow Americans. A gun bought for self defence is bought to kill. Humans. If bought for self defence it is not going to be locked away in a gun-safe but kept accessible and with conveniently located ammunition. There for little Johnny to show his buds or the thief to steal.
Why?
This morning I sat in the dark for several hours thinking about the tragedy in Sandy Hook. I cannot, cannot imagine what all those families are feeling. I tried to write, to comment earlier. I couldn't. Everything seemed trite & a rehash of all the old arguments. I was angered by the comments of Bryan Fischer (see Charles Pierce yesterday), Steve Dulan, who is supporting a state bill (Michigan, or as Pierce calls it Michissippi) that would allow concealed weapons in schools and other gun-free zones, said Friday that having armed teachers inside Sandy Hook Elementary School would have, "if not prevented, then perhaps minimized," the tragedy. (Huffington post interview), and others of such ilk as Mike Huckabee, Cathy Rodgers and others.
Then I scrolled down the NYTimes page and came upon an obituary of a 'reformed stick-up man' who had described his first murder in an interview. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/us/donnie-andrews-basis-for-omar-of-the-wire-dies-at-58.html?hpw)
“My gun jammed,” Mr. Andrews told The New York Times in 2007. “So the guy was lying on the ground, and it gave him a chance to look me in the eye, and he said, ‘Why?’ ”
All those children, all those educators...once again the question is Why?
That unforgettable image of the little boy clasping his hands in horror in front of his face will remain with me..it says more than words.
@MAG. My response has been quite different from yours. I'm not shocked. @Ormond Otvos wrote in a comment to yesterday's Commentariat, "... we have no real right to mourn them [the children of Newtown] more than the Afghani or Iraqi children. Or their moms and pops." My first thought on hearing the news was, "We kill children, don't we?" We are a murdering people. We kill children here; we kill children over there. I have close family in Newtown; it is not unlikely that a victim is a relative of mine. I'll wait a few days to call, so as not to further burden my cousins. But whatever I find out, I will not be any more or less shocked.
In the past, when a multiple murder occurred, you could usually count on reporters finding a few friends and family of the murderer to say, "We're stunned; he was such a good boy. We can't understand what happened to him." Now, almost always, reporters dutifully round up acquaintances of the murderer who say, "We weren't surprised. The guy was always weird." The next mass murderer is hiding in plain site. He is collecting his arsenal. The NRA is making sure there are no impediments to his ability to obtain the weapons & ammo he needs. State legislators & governors and judges are paving the way. Mass murder is state-sponsored. Polite people -- presidents & congressmen & judges -- don't pull the trigger, but they put weapons of mass destruction in the hands of those who do. And we will repeat this ritual. This is who we Americans have become. I have opted out. I have chosen not to play the role assigned me. I will not stand in as the Shocked Onlooker, rubbing her hands in dismay.
Marie
I was curious what the Murdoch/Ailes website would say about the murder of children by a crazy person with a firearm. Their lead commenter is some War department lobbyist/attorney/hack saying to not politicize this tragic killing of babies. How do people take them seriously?
If there was justice in the world, Murdoch & Ailes & and this soulless commenter would have to spout their views from the steps of the school in Newtown.
What saddens me almost as much as the tragedies that keep coming month after month is the feckless handwringing by well meaning anguished Americans decrying "violence" and "sick people".
Americans are more violent or mentally ill than any other people: what is different about America is the insane proliferation of automatic weapons freely available to any and every lunatic who wants to kill innocent children.
Instead of sending our "thoughts and prayers" to the victims and their families after every one of these endless bouts of murder, let's do something that will actually help curb the insanity: vote out Republicans (and some Democrats) who refuse to say no to the NRA. Until then, please spare me the handwringing.
@CW: I'm with you and would add we have no (intellectual or moral, not Constitutional) right to be shocked by any of the horrors that afflict us because we know enough to predict most of them. There are few mysteries here. We know they're going to happen.
Surprised or shocked that the Colorado River cannot continue to supply enough water for all those people moving to the Great American Desert?
Taken aback by the increasingly unsettled weather, the droughts and super storms that ravage our communities?
Dismayed that people we bomb and whose resources we steal don't like us?
Amazed that workers who haven't been able to find decent jobs for two years just give up hope?
Puzzled that increasing populations necessarily require more organization and regimentation and thus allow less room for the individual freedoms we cherish?
The How Could this Happen? stance is just another comfortable way we've developed to avoid responsibility for the way we live. Most things we find too horrible to think about happen precisely because of the way we live and no amount of pretense, shock or dismay will change that.
As I remember, Scarlett O'Hara just didn't want to think about it, and that didn't work our too well for her. Nor do we, and on many fronts, it's not working out very well for us either.
But I'm not shocked or surprised.
@Ken Winkes to just add one more piece to your comment, to solve all problems just pray to your god, he is responsible for everything so we are responsible for nothing. How nice.
After reading countless takes on all this, finding Huckabees' the most egregious by evoking his old testament god who's pissed off because there is no prayer in schools so causes havoc and the killing of small children, I found the comment of the aforementioned Otvos thought provoking and think I did on it. Not having a right to mourn this tragedy more than others in the world seems too severe. How can I in this broad sense even enjoy a good meal when I know there are people starving somewhere. How would we be able to function if we take on the world's ills. Then reading Marie above re: how we, as a nation, are always shocked, stunned, say the same things after each shooting––the "thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families"–––becomes a ritual without real meaning if we never do anything to help prevent these horrible occurrences. But I do mourn, yes more than I do––and I do––for others in the world because this happened in my own backyard, in my own country, it is close and it is traumatic because it IS so close.
George Elliot writing on the definition of tragedy: "If we had a keen vision and feeling of all ordinary human life, it would be like hearing the grass grow and the squirrel's heartbeat, and we should die of the roar which lies on the other side of silence."
And many have shown us courage and spirit by functioning on the edge of that other side of silence and I am grateful.
The conversation yesterday prompted by Egan's piece on education was a wonderful discussion. I picked up one of the books Egan recommended, "In the Garden of Beasts," and apropos of our long Weimar discussion the author, Eric Larson gives us the actual story of William Dodd, America's first ambassador to Hitler's Germany, in 1933. Dodd, along with his wife, son and daughter experience in Berlin the turning point in history. Having read just a few chapters so far it would be an excellent history lesson for all those youngsters who ain't moved by history no way. Tell a story––who doesn't love a story.
I think something else needs to be said about the media coverage of the "crazies" who commit the atrocities. As I remember it, the media covered the trial of the Unabomber pretty well. They tried to explain that Ted was a high level schizophrenic who had bizarre delusions; and that the delusions helped to understand his actions. It was understandable why Ted would have ended up with life in prison.
However, the killer in AZ was found to be very dangerous and psychotic and nearly impossible to subdue even while in custody. There was very little coverage of that, or of the parents who had to live with that, or how AZ has very poor access to any adequate mental health care. We do know that the murderer is in jail for life, but details on how batsh*t crazy he still is are not described adequately.
And all we seem to know about the murderer in Aurora, CO is that he had mental health issues, that his mother was almost relieved to hear that her son had been stopped, and that his living arrangements were bizarre. But he seems to have had a severe deterioration in all functioning, he had been seeing a psychiatrist who was concerned enough that she took action, etc. Do we know why?
And now all we may learn is that the perpetrator in CT had "mental health issues," perhaps a form of autism.
I think regular people are sophisticated enough nowadays to take on the reality that there is severe mental illness, that severe mental illness needs adequate recognition and treatment, and this means that we need to know MORE about when things become dangerous in a person with severe mental illness. I think the media is not helping people to understand and possibly intervene in a caring manner.
This persistent naiveté in coverage is a disservice.
What brings this mini-rant on is that one of my friends has a son with "a form of autism" who ended up barricading herself into her room when her husband was away, because her son had become so violent. They were able to place her son in a secure environment; but my friend definitely wanted a handgun for her own protection.
We don't know what the perpetrator's actions had been. We don't know what the mother's fears were.
Time to end the "secret" of severe mental illness.
Here are some bills languishing in Congress that Jerry Adler (D-NY) believes would make a difference in curbing gun violence:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/immediately-address-issue-gun-control-through-introduction-legislation-congress/2tgcXzQC?wae
Write, call, email, buttonhole your Congressperson.
@CW: " how to pay for additional security? Tax the hell out of guns & ammo. No Second Amendment issue there."
Love your suggestion!! Wonder if Alan Grayson would introduce a bill to do exactly that.
@Victoria: keep in mind that funding for mental health facilities was cut during the last administration and I don't think this has been changed. Someone suggested giving mental health tests to kids when they go for their physicals––zero in on potential problems early with early intervention.
One thing I have seen mentioned in the media, but not expanded upon, is the fact that all the guns Adam Lanza used were registered to his mother. There is definitely a story here. I think if somebody with a family history angle delves into the picture, we will understand much more than we now do. If not, we will understand virtually nothing. Mental illness does not reside in just one person in a family system, with no relation to other family members. For instance, Adam's older brother left for college, leaving Adam at home with his parents--who were in the midst of marital turmoil--and divorced two years later. (I heard this morning some mention of a person found dead in Hoboken, where the father lived, but no firm details.)
I believe everything that touches us most deeply has a family side. To understand what went on with this young man, we must know much more about his family--in fact, several generations.
The New York Times and PBS both employ a guy like David Brooks who with a straight face say, "Second, oddly -- and I'm not sure why -- I don't have any explanation for this -- support for gun control laws has dropped significantly over the last 20 years. I'm not sure why that is." We do not even expect the smallest effort of thought from our supposed experts. The NRA has bought the media.
Brooks and the people who keep him employed enable the bullets as much as the guy who sold the ammo to the Newtown killer. When I think of windbags with a megaphone, at least wrong-way McCain was voted into his job; Brooks is a pundit for life with zero reason why.
Both are living, breathing reasons why I turned off the tv years ago.
Lots of misinformation and contradictions floating around.
Here's some of what I have seen that counters previous comments. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/nyregion/gunman-kills-20-children-at-school-in-connecticut-28-dead-in-all.html?pagewanted=1&hp )
About the father:
NYTimes: "There was still no public explanation of what had motivated Mr. Lanza. Agents from the Federal Bureau of Investigation interviewed his brother, Ryan Lanza, in Hoboken, N.J. His father, Peter Lanza, who was divorced from his mother, was also questioned, an official said. "
Obviously, Mr. Lanza is not dead in Hoboken!
and this...
"Contradicting earlier reports, Ms. Robinson said Mr. Lanza’s mother, Nancy Lanza, had never been a teacher or a substitute teacher at the school, though she did not specifically say whether she had had any other connection to the place."
I want to reiterate that focusing on a perpetrator's mental illness and lack of treatment, diagnosis, etc diverts our energy to a much more complex and difficult solution than the obvious problem of gun access, use and display. As Marie suggests, regulation of ammunition may be a more productive avenue.
The 24/7 coverage of these murders is ridiculous. It reminds me of gang members who go around to schools glorifying the gang life ("I had women, money, cars, etc") and then says "oh and don't do what I did." In my view, there is no value to this type of insidious, tedious and intrusive reporting. Joy Reid was on MHPerry and she gave voice to my disgust when I saw reporters interviewing some of the young children who were victimized by the murderer.
Re Huckabee quote. Short email from my bro. He says Huckleberry got it wrong; it was fluoride in the water.
@Victoria, "I think regular people are sophisticated enough nowadays to take on the reality that there is severe mental illness, that severe mental illness needs adequate recognition and treatment, and this means that we need to know MORE about when things become dangerous in a person with severe mental illness."
Well, I can't say I share your faith in regular sophistication--given the many, and wildly contradictory, pop myths about mental illness, I don't think it can be said that the American people collectively understand to any degree the need for properly diagnosing and treating mental illness, severe or otherwise. Having said that, those people close to the violently mentally ill usually know when someone is becoming dangerous; typically, the person became dangerous long ago, but (most typical scenario) his parents can't make him take his meds and neither can law enforcement get involved, even if he's threatened to take out 30 people, so the knowledge that he's about to blow is of no practical use, except for the post-"tragedy" reporting, when reporters focus, uselessly and obsessively, on What Could Have Been Done. We just had a classic case of this locally--the parents had done all they could, and all they could have been expected to do. The usual farce, with the authorities having been warned but not empowered to do squat to prevent the violence (stabbings, in this case).
Threats from the mentally ill aren't taken seriously, and for the simple reason that the mentally ill themselves aren't taken seriously. The mentally ill and their illnesses only show up on the popular radar after the latest mass shooting.
Disgracefully, our media is doing what it always does--straddling the fence between knowledge and received superstition. On one hand, they're whoring to the pop notion that mental illness is "mental illness," i.e. something put on, or (like global warming) a debatable reality, or some kind of "One Flew Over..." statement of individuality, or something somehow too mysterious to adequately quantify or classify (thanks, Holly-freaking-wood); on the other hand, and simultaneously, the media gives some talking time to people with actual clinical knowledge. Which, of course, reduces the real story to an optional scenario--a trick the media does better than anything else, imo. The "you decide" fallacy, which fails to take into account the public's utter stupidity (aided considerably by Hollywood and the nightly news) regarding mental illness.
How is Huckabee's fundie take on the shootings, while utterly non sequitur, any less harmfully dumb than the many other stupid popular notions about mental disturbance? Is it fundamentally worse than the patented left-wing conceit wherein an issue as massive, and massively important, as mental illness is treated like the proverbial Single Piece of a Complex Puzzle? How huge and harmful does something have to be before it's not a piece of a problem, but a whole issue unto itself. And how utterly and blatantly obvious in its cause and effect does a problem, like gun violence in a gun-happy culture, have to be before we stop treating it like a puzzle?
I'm reminded of the classic "Is Vic there?" sketch by the Monty Python group. Re Marie not being shocked, neither am I. When I first spotted the headline on msn.com, I thought, "Oh. Another one?" This current tragedy will soon become the third-latest. Then fourth-latest. Therein lies the puzzle.
Well, I actually was making a comment on how the media covers mental illness. And I stick to my belief that an average person, un-dumbed down, can figure out what mental illness is and do something rational about it. I do believe that we can figure things out. And, no, I won't focus on gun control as my major topic: I get to choose what I think is important, thank you very much. And, yes, I do have quite a bit of experience in studying serious mental illness. People do their best and could use help, not MSM stupidity.
@Victoria, apologies if my note seemed to be attacking you or questioning your experience in studying serious mental illness. My first paragraph was an answer to your claim that average people can figure out what mental illness is, and maybe (big maybe) they could, if not so shamefully misinformed by entertainment (including the abominable "One Flew Over...") and news coverage that mixes received poplore with the facts. But in our media-driven and -shaped culture, that's so unlikely as to be a hopeless wish, imo. This is not to suggest that insane notions about insanity would suddely and magically cease if Hollywood stopped with the infantile meme that crazy=being yourself, or if the news stopped presenting expert input next to received poplore. But such wrongheaded notions would lose the media stamp of approval.
Yes, by all means, focus on the issue of your choice. Actually, my point about gun control vs. mental illness is that both issues are equally important--there's no pressure, as implied throughout this thread, to deal with either one or the other. Dealing with both is a great idea, I think. Most of my post was directed at anyone who happened to be reading. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.