;)
The Commentariat -- October 13, 2015
Internal links removed.
Jennifer Steinhauer: Influential far-right pundits say Paul Ryan is "too far left." Meaning he opposes shutting down the government until we reinstate the original Constitution, with no Amendments except the Second & Tenth. ...
... Kerry Eleveld of Daily Kos on why Ryan won't be speaker.: he has demands, the Krazee Kaucus has demands, & never the twain shall meet. ...
... Burgess Everett of Politico: "Sen. Tom Cotton [RTP-Ark.] told us in an interview that with all the instability in the House leadership, it's time to turn to the former vice president [Dick Cheney]. 'Look, these are trying times for our nation. It's important to have a steady hand on the helm during times like this. I think experience really counts in a matter like this. I think House leadership experience really matters. And as you know the speaker doesn't have to be a member of the House: So therefore, Vice President Cheney for speaker.' [Seung Min Kim] and I asked if he was serious, and Cotton replied: 'He's a man of the House, he says that himself.'" ...
... CW: Of course I ignored Mark Halperin's latest prognostications, but Ed Kilgore takes on the drama queen. There are two great dramas! But they're like one! The fate of the world lies in Joe Biden's & Paul Ryan's hands! I'll be writing a book about it! (Also linked yesterday afternoon.)
Josh Gerstein of Politico: "A federal court deadline Tuesday will be a pivotal turning point in [Denny Hastert's] felony case, signaling whether the former House speaker will plead guilty to a deal that has been under negotiation since at least late September with the U.S. Attorney's Office in Chicago." CW: Another reminder of what a corrupt gang of hacks & criminals has led the House GOP for generations now. Also, I believe most turning points are pivotal & most pivots are turning points.
Jeremy Diamond & Jake Tapper of CNN: "The attorneys for a former investigator with the House Select Committee on Benghazi on Monday issued a cease-and-desist letter alleging that Republican Committee Chairman Trey Gowdy violated confidentiality terms of a mediation between the parties.... Discussions that are part of the mandatory 30-day mediation between Podliska and the committee are confidential under the Congressional Accountability Act.... Gowdy in a statement on Sunday said that Podliska had 'demanded money from the Committee,' that 'the Committee has refused to pay him....'... When asked about the mediation in his interview with CNN, [former staffer Bradley] Podlaski demurred: 'I can't comment on the mediation process, unfortunately.'"
Laurel Sweet of the Boston Herald: "Former Vietnam POW and U.S. Sen. John McCain tells the Herald he’ll call a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee if accused Army deserter Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl is allowed to avoid prison -- a potential power play Bergdahl's attorney calls 'unlawful' and 'deeply disturbing.' 'If it comes out that he has no punishment, we're going to have to have a hearing in the Senate Armed Services Committee,' said McCain, who chairs the committee. 'And I am not prejudging, OK, but it is well known that in the searches for Bergdahl, after -- we know now -- he deserted, there are allegations that some American soldiers were killed or wounded, or at the very least put their lives in danger, searching for what is clearly a deserter. We need to have a hearing on that.'"
President Obama & writer Marilynne Robinson have a conversation in Iowa.
Adam Goldman of the Washington Post: "Two former CIA prisoners and the family of another detainee who froze to death at a secret prison in Afghanistan have sued the architects of the spy agency's detention and interrogation program. The lawsuit was filed Tuesday in federal court in Spokane, Wash., against James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, a pair of psychologists who earned millions using untested, brutal techniques, such as waterboarding, on CIA prisoners. The suit alleges that the CIA tortured Suleiman Abdullah Salim and Mohamed Ahmed Ben Soud at a black site dubbed Salt Pit, exposing them to a regime that the psychologists had developed.... The suit also says that the CIA kidnapped and killed Gul Rahman, an Afghan citizen who died of hypothermia in November 2002 at Salt Pit.... The American Civil Liberties Union, which filed the suit on behalf of the other former detainees, said the psychologists conspired with the CIA to torture the three men and committed war crimes."
Maj. Lisa Jaster, during Ranger training. Army photo.Dan Lamothe of the Washington Post: "On Monday, the Army announced that [Maj. Lisa] Jaster, 37, has become the third woman to ever complete the [Army] Ranger School course. She will join Capt. Kristen Griest, 26, and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver, 25, who earned the Ranger tab on Aug. 21. Jaster will join 87 men in receiving the coveted decoration in a ceremony at Fort Benning on Friday."
Brian Fung of the Washington Post: "Twitter announced a series of job cuts Tuesday that will trim its workforce worldwide by 336 employees, or about eight percent, according to a company regulatory filing." CW: Nobody has done more for Twitter than Donald Trump. (See highlighted entry under Presidential Race, for instance.) And yet. And yet. It looks like Trump won't be able to keep his campaign announcement promise that "I will be the greatest jobs president that God ever created."
Annals of "Journalism," Ctd.
"Paul Ryan Seems to Be Prioritizing His Family. That's Unusual for a Male Lawmaker." So says the top online headline in this morning's Washington Post. If that doesn't convince you that Paul Ryan is the absolutely sweetest family man in the history of Congress, the editors throw into the story a 2012 shot of the then-GOP veep candidate at a soup kitchen washing dishes with his family. What the Post doesn't tell you is that those dishes were already clean. (Hope that watch he's wearing is waterproof. Oh, no water in the sink. All good.) Res ipsa loquitur.
Charles Pierce: Somehow the oligarchy that has taken over the country never comes up on the Sunday showz. CW: It would appear that Pierce did not get up early enough to see Anthony Mason on CBS's "Sunday Morning" kissing the ring on top oligarch Charles Koch, wherein Mason & crew allowed Koch to "come across as avuncular, sincere, and high-minded, a sweet, patriotic old man," according to Akhilleus. (See today's comments.) Somehow, both-sides-do-itism never takes account of us-v.-them. Only "them" gets a hearing. (Also linked yesterday afternoon.)
Presidential Race
Eugene Scott of CNN: "Hillary Clinton will be center stage on Tuesday night for the Democratic presidential candidates' first debate, according to the podium order released by CNN, which is hosting the event. The position of the five candidates on the stage at the CNN Facebook Democratic Debate in Las Vegas is based on polls since Aug. 1 and was announced on CNN's 'State of the Union.'" Also, we'll find a podium for you, Joe Biden, if you stop by. ...
... CW: If, like me, you can't watch the debate on the teevee, you can watch it on CNN's livestreaming channel. BUT only if you have access thru a cable or dish. ...
... New York "Times reporters will provide instant analysis and fact-checking during the debate. Coverage begins at 8:30 p.m. Follow along on your phone or computer at nytimes.com, facebook.com/nytpolitics and @NYTPolitics. Follow along during the day." ...
... The Mainstream Party. Greg Sargent: "... broadly speaking, most of the positions that you'll hear from likely Dem nominee Clinton (and some from Sanders, as well) tonight will not threaten to be a liability in the general election.... The two parties' primary processes seem fundamentally different. The GOP primary has resulted in the GOP candidates embracing positions such as huge tax cuts for the rich, defunding Planned Parenthood, and mass deportations/ending birthright citizenship.... These positions probably will be liabilities in the general election. By contrast, many of the positions Dems end up taking during their primary probably won't be liabilities in the general election. We'll see if this basic imbalance is registered in the coverage." ...
... Philip Rucker of the Washington Post: "Democrats expect the debate to be substantive and to set the course for an unexpectedly contentious nominating contest. Americans are either going to find a pleasing contrast to the rip-roaring show Republicans have put on -- or they're going to be bored senseless." ...
... Brian Beutler of the New Republic: "It isn't wrong or biased to say that Democrats make comparatively boring television. But that isn't a strike against Democrats, either. It's a reflection of the fact that the Republican Party, unlike the Democratic Party, is dominated by reactionary voters, which makes its candidates prone to saying or doing outrageous things out of a sense of necessity." ...
... CW: Debbie should have let Larry Lessig participate in the debate. He's the closest Democrats can come to the Ben Carson genre of candidate. He's not a career politician! He's very accomplished in his field! AND he has a bizarre plan! ...
... Dave Weigel of the Washington Post: "Over the weekend, some of [CNN]'s reporters revealed cheeky plans to expand the debate, if needed: A clean, bubble-wrapped podium reserved for Vice President Joe Biden, should he decide to enter the race even one minute before the faceoff. If Biden doesn't run, the podium will go unused. That may be the greatest indignity yet visited upon Larry Lessig, the Harvard academic and anti-corruption scholar who announced a crowd-funded presidential bid last month. As of now, he's running. Biden isn't." ...
... ** Bill Curry of Salon discusses the Democratic debates, the first of which will take place this evening.
Joe the Reluctant. Maggie Haberman & Peter Baker of the New York Times: "Mr. Biden initially said he would decide by the end of summer [whether or not he would run for president]. Now aides are researching filing deadlines to see if he can keep his options open into November."
At the request of many, and even though I expect it to be a very boring two hours, I will be covering the Democrat debate live on twitter! -- Donald Trump
... Don't count yourself as a political junkie if all you do today is read a few Reality Chex links & tune into the Democratic debate while you're washing your socks following the Donald on Twitter. A real American political junkie would be spending the entire day with Rand Paul, then watching the debate with him.
Daniel Strauss of Politico: "Sen. Bernie Sanders got his second congressional endorsement on Monday, from Rep. Keith Ellison."
Jack Gillum & Stephen Braun of the AP: "The private email server running in Hillary Rodham Clinton's home basement when she was secretary of state was connected to the Internet in ways that made it more vulnerable to hackers, according to data and documents reviewed by The Associated Press.... The findings suggest Clinton's server 'violates the most basic network-perimeter security tenets: Don't expose insecure services to the Internet,' said Justin Harvey, the chief security officer for Fidelis Cybersecurity."
The Unhinged Candidate. CBN: "Russian leader Vladimir Putin has been tied to controversial Mideast Muslim leaders since the time they attended school in Moscow, according to Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson. Carson raised the little known historical fact during his guest appearance on CBN's The 700 Club Friday. Carson said Putin shares a deep historical tie with Iran's Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei and Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas, suggesting he became acquainted with them during their college days in Moscow when Putin was a young KGB operative." ...
... Steve Benen: "The trouble is, it's little known because it's not a historical fact. There's literally no evidence to suggest Khamenei ever studied in the former Soviet Union. And since he and Abbas are several years older than Putin, the timeline doesn't even make sense.... 'In a follow-up interview, Dr. Carson would not disclose his sources, but told CBN News he learned about the ties between the three leaders from advisors across the government, including the CIA.'... Not to put too fine a point on this, but we're delving deep into crackpot waters at this point. An unhinged presidential candidate, citing clandestine sources that probably do not exist, is now describing a decades-old relationship between foreign leaders that also does not appear to exist. All of this comes on the heels of increasingly alarming claims that Carson appears to have invented out of whole cloth." ...
... AND he's been making this claim quite a lot lately. Louis Jacobson of PolitiFact checked it out: "This is one of the more bizarre claims we've heard so far in the 2016 presidential campaign, and that's saying something." In an update, PolitiFact went after Carson's "sources"; i.e., his CBN claim that he "learned about the ties between the three leaders from advisors across the government, including the CIA." This clashes with the earlier suggestion by Carson's press staff to PolitiFact that the evidence for the claim could be found by 'Googling.'" CW: Maybe the CIA contacts him through secret signs that pop up on his iPad. ...
... CW: Most surprising part: Carson did not reveal the little known historical fact that Obama was in the same Moscow classroom with Putin, Khamenei & Abbas. Guess he's saving that for later. ...
... Benen asks, "Is there a point at which the political world has a conversation about whether Carson is grounded enough to be seen as a credible candidate for public office? Is it fair to say we've reached that point now?" ...
... Apparently Not. Trip Gabriel of the New York Times: "For a long time, Ben Carson's campaign team feared that his habit of inflammatory remarks would sink his presidential hopes. They sent him to media training in Texas. The candidate pledged to police his words. But ever since Mr. Carson said on Sept. 20 that he did not think a Muslim should be president, then refused to retract the statement amid a furious reaction, his campaign has watched grass-roots support grow and donations pour in [[ and advisers have backtracked, deciding, in the words of one, to 'let Carson be Carson.'" CW: "Inflammatory remarks"? How about batshit crazy? ...
... At least Gene Robinson gets it right: "The craziest thing about the Republican presidential contest isn't that Donald Trump is in the lead. It's that Dr. Ben Carson -- who truly seems to have lost his mind -- is in second place and gaining fast. Trump may be a blowhard, but Carson has proved himself to be a crackpot of the first order. Of all the GOP contenders, he's the scariest."
Tierney Sneed of TPM: "After a relatively staid speech about some of Donald Trump's favorite subjects -- dissing President Obama, boycotting Oreos and building ice rinks -- the GOP frontrunner's appearance at the centrist No Labels convention went predictably off the rails when the floor was opened up for questions.... Attendees grilled Trump about the Tea Party and on whether he was a friend to women. Trump also asked a questioner wearing a Harvard shirt who asked about South Korea if he was South Korean. The young man was born in Texas." You can watch Trump insulting audience members here.
Jonathan Cohn of the Huffington Post: "Jeb Bush on Tuesday will introduce a plan to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act. But 'replace' may not be quite the right word.... Jeb's Obamacare Repeal-And-Replace Plan Is More Repeal Than Replace. Conservatives will love it. But careful if you actually get sick."
When Bullies Collide. "Chris Christie Fully Prepared to Start WWIII." Caroline Bankoff of New York: "In an MSNBC interview in which he referred to President Obama as 'this weakling in the White House,' Christie imagined himself taking a hard line with President Vladimir Putin (or just plain old 'Vladimir,' as Christie seems to call him). 'My first phone call would be to Vladimir, and I'd say, "Listen, we're enforcing this no-fly zone. And I mean we're enforcing it against anyone, including you,'" he said. 'So don't try me. Don't try me. Because I'll do it.'" CW: Chris will be as tough on Vlad as he is on kindergarten teachers.
Beyond the Beltway
Erik Eckholm of the New York Times: A Milwaukee civil suit puts a gun store owner on trial for allowing an obviously illegal sale of a gun used a month later to seriously wound two police officers. (Also linked yesterday afternoon.)
Welcome Back, Poacher. Norimitsu Onishi of the New York Times: "Just this summer, Zimbabwe was pressing to extradite an American dentist involved in the hunt that killed a lion known as Cecil, with the environment minister denouncing him as a 'foreign poacher' who had absconded home. On Monday, it changed course, saying not only that the dentist would not be charged but that he was welcome to return."
Sarah's mother took the photo. "'I know the face that I'm giving my mom was the "Really, mom? Right now you're taking a picture?"' she said.
... Your Feel-Good Story of the Day. Char Adams of People: "Sarah Ray, a paramedic from Tennessee, went well above the call of duty when she rushed to respond to a car crash on her wedding day.... Just minutes after she tied the knot with her husband, Paul, on Oct. 3, Ray received a call that her grandparents and father got into a car accident on their way to her reception. So, the bride and groom, both paramedics, sprung into action.
News Ledes
Washington Post: "The Taliban announced Tuesday that it is withdrawing from the key northern Afghan city of Kunduz, the site of its first significant military gain since the militants were driven from power in late 2001."
New York Times: "Four attacks by Palestinians in Jerusalem and a city 40 miles away killed three Israeli Jews and wounded at least a dozen others in two hours on Tuesday morning, the police said, the most intense eruption so far in two weeks of escalating violence that has alarmed Israel and flummoxed its security forces.... Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel called an emergency meeting of top security officials and ministers for Tuesday afternoon. A police spokeswoman said the steps to be considered included a complete closing of Jerusalem's Arab neighborhoods...." ...
... CW News Flash: Flummoxed? Really? When you repress people, they're usually not happy about it. The solution you-all have come up with -- repress them some more -- seems to have flaw.
New York Times: "A 15-month inquiry into the disintegration of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in the skies over eastern Ukraine has concluded that the aircraft was most likely attacked from the ground by a Russian-made missile, Dutch air accident investigators said on Tuesday."
Washington Post: "The battle over the relocation of a United States Marine Corps base on the Japanese island of Okinawa escalated Tuesday when Okinawa's governor revoked a permit for the new construction site. The central government in Tokyo vowed to fight the governor's decision, but Tuesday's action marked the latest in a series of complications that has bedeviled the U.S. military's efforts to build a new base on Okinawa."
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Reader Comments (10)
Marie, I happen to have a chat today with a well respected psychiatrist and your diagnosis for Carson 'batshit crazy' is correct.
It's a real short journey from auditory hallucinations identified as government sources including the CIA to direct instruction from God. If Ben showed up in the requisite delusional tin hat, his supporters would follow suit and the media would identify it as fashion forward attire.
It won't be that crazy that gets him, it will be his race. Crazy is embraced, not so much being a person of color.
For those who are able to watch the debate tonight, the article below may make the experience more interesting. To me the presence of Jim Webb at the debate is one more indication of the depth of the Democratic field as contrasted with that of the Republicans.
The WP reporter seems to think a recognition of complexity (Webb's take on Confederate flag issues) marks a person as conservative. In my experience so called liberals are far more conscious of the complexity inherent in a functioning democracy than current "conservatives" who seem to be guided by a handful of mantras rather than facts and the experience of hundreds of millions of people.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-wild-card-at-the-democratic-debate-could-be-the-guy-no-ones-talking-about/2015/10/11/34471cf8-6d20-11e5-b31c-d80d62b53e28_story.html
For a more in depth view of Webb's political courage, readers might want to consider a 2009 Salon essay about him by Glenn Greenwald. Greenwald wrote, more than five years ago:
"There are few things rarer than a major politician doing something that is genuinely courageous and principled, but Jim Webb’s impassioned commitment to fundamental prison reform is exactly that."
http://www.salon.com/2009/03/28/webb_2/
We all have feet of clay, and there are important areas where I disagree with Webb. But I admire him for his honesty and for his military and civic service. And, as I admire Marie and many of the contributors at this site, I admire Jim Webb simply because he writes so well.
We here on R.C. have been pin pointing Ben Carson's "bat shit crazy" for quite a long time, and have agreed with the above journalists that he presents as a very dangerous person and we, too, have wondered how long before he's discredited. He was on O'Reilly last night spouting his Nazi nonsense along with his suggestion that when confronted with a mass shooter we need to mow him down––Bill agreed with everything adding, "After all that's what those people did on 9/11 in that plane that crashed." One holds his breath listening to these two jerks whose audience eats it up with gusto.
By the way, heard Dana Perino say she couldn't wait for the debates tonight–-"I'll get my popcorn, my Milk Duds and my dog..." in a snide snark like voice and I threw a pillow at the screen.
*ring-ring-ring*
"Hello, this is the Press, can I help you?"
"Yes, this is, er, a concerned citizen from Wisconsin. I've been reading some very distasteful, and frankly untrue stories and comments about that very excellent congressman, Paul Ryan, about how he's a coward and a loser and a fraud. He needs a break. The Public needs to hear about his good qualities, not just liberal claptrap and lies. Do you....get my point?"
"Of course. Don't worry about a thing. We'll get right on it. In fact, I'll call my friends over at the Washington Post and ABC."
"Gimme Jon Karl at ABC, willya? Jon? Hey, this is J.P. Zenger over at Press Central. No, not that John Peter Zenger, he's dead. Listen, Jon, I know how much you try to help the Republicans. We've got a problem. Your pal Ryan is taking a lot of heat over this speakership bullshit. Yeah. Right. I know, liberal assholes again. Anyway, see what you can do to help him out, okay? How about how he's already got his "dream job" and, oh yeah....play up the "time at home with the kids" angle. It's a bit hoary but it still plays in Peoria. That's right, plenty of schmaltz. Okay, see ya."
"Get me Freddie Ryan over at the Post. Fred? J.P. here. No not that one, the New J.P. Yeah, anyway...what's that? Have I heard the story about how you and Ron were great pals? Yeah, yeah, I think I have. What? Did I know that Nancy liked you better than Don Regan? Yeah, I think you told me that one before. And you would never have said anything about the astrology lady? Oh yeah. I'm sure you would have been a fucking black hole on that one. Yeah, well listen, Freddie, Pauly Ryan needs a break. Ryan. P A U L Ryan. No he's not a pitcher for the Cubs. He's that guy who ran with Mitty. Romney. Mitt Rom-Ney. Yeah, yeah, that guy. Anyway, he could use some help. Pain in the ass liberals like that fucking Krugman are calling him a fraud and a liar. What's that? He is a fraud and a liar? Yeah, okay, but we don't wanna say shit like that, right? Both sides, remember? So see if you can print something wholesome. Too many stories about sex-sex-sex and Republicans, and how they're nuts and don't do shit. So play up the good dad thing and how much he wants to be home with his kids and loves them and washes dishes at soup kitchens. Yeah. What's that? He didn't give a shit about being home with his kids when he was running for VP? Of course he didn't. Jesus Freddie, I'm not saying it's true. Help a guy out, fer crissakes. Okay. Talk to you later.
"Christ, what a schmuck. Awright what's next? A call from Ben Carson? Okay, put 'im through. Hey Ben, what's happenin?...a looney? Ahhh....whadda they know? Listen, with a little mustache Hillary would be a dead ringer for Hitler. Don't worry about a thing, we're on it. Okay, take it slow."
"Jesus, helping out these idiots is a full time job!"
So Trumpy will get out his broken trumpet tonight and "cover" the Democratic debate on Twitter? Can't wait for that immense display of political acumen and professional demeanor.
It'll be like Andrew Dice Clay commenting on a "Jeopardy" match. "Whoa, what the fuck kinda category is Economic Inequality? So not everybody's rich. Who the fuck cares? Not me. I'm rich as shit!"
Maybe he can question the patriotism of Jim Webb and his son, or compare Bernie Sanders to Lenin and Trotsky. Do I hear any jabs about Hillary's looks? Whatever, you can bet his every nasty word will be given as much coverage as the Democratic candidates, because insulting wisecracks from an orange haired clown are much more fun to report on than serious people discussing the future of this nation.
The Biden Thing.
At some point tonight, there will be the obligatory "What about Biden?" question.
I like Joe Biden. I wish he were in the race. For a lot of reasons. For one, tonight would have been a lot more fun (not saying there's no chance of that without him); remember how much fun we had watching Smokin' Joe bitch-slapping Little Paulie Ryan around the stage in '12? That was soooo much fun. He couldn't stop laughing when Lyin' Ryan started off on that tangent about how much he knows about Afghanistan: "They have snow in the mountains. Especially, like, in the winter. Right?" Ooooh-kaay.
But it is time for him to say one way or the other.
By the way, the media, in their all-knowing wisdom, have already decided for him. And they're being pretty nasty about it. The other day in the Post, Greg Sargent demanded that Biden "stop jerking us around" and "stop wasting our time". So hold that thought. Can you imagine many media types demanding that Ben Carson stop wasting our time? Or Carly Liarina? Or ANY of the Republican candidates? No. It would never happen. They treat these people like they're all serious contenders, like people with something useful to say, not obstructionist, secessionist, gun-fondling, oligarch loving, delusional assholes.
How about the Washington Post demand that Donald Trump and Ted Cruz stop "jerking us around"?
Never mind.
I wish Biden had decided sooner to jump in but there are a lot of reasons now why his candidacy would be problematic. I see Fox is trying to coax him into the race as well. Anything to cause problems for Clinton. You can bet that the minute he started polling a lot higher than their guys in a real race, they'd break out the long knives.
Biden has had a distinguished career in politics. He's done a lot of good things for his state and for the country. And he's had his run at the presidency. I'm not saying he should "stop wasting our time", it's never a waste of time if some good for the country comes out of it, no matter how that comes about (if, for instance, challenging Clinton made her a better candidate in the general), despite Greg Sargent's pique. But if he decides to go out gracefully at the end of this term, he will be remembered for his part in an historic administration, and no one can say different.
Oh, and Marie....
"Most surprising part: Carson did not reveal the little known historical fact that Obama was in the same Moscow classroom with Putin, Khamenei & Abbas."
Soooorrrry. I guess you didn't dig deep enough.
Obama wasn't a classmate of Putin, Khamenei and Mahmoud Abbas in a course on socialist-Muslim world domination, he was the professor. Osama Bin Laden and Carlos the Jackal were his mentors and Pol Pot and Abimael Guzmán, founder of Shining Path, were co-chairs of the department.
C'mon, get it straight. Jeez. Breitbart and Drudge are coming out with an exclusive on this info. You don't want to be left in the Drudge sludge, do you?
@Akhilleus: Thanks so much for the correction. It's amazing that Obama was the teacher when he was maybe 5 years old, but I guess your average sleeper is pretty precocious.
Marie
Marie,
Damn straight. A precocious Muslim commie Christ hater from Kenya, no less.