;)
The Conversation -- August 20, 2023
Katelyn Polantz of CNN: “Former Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows has asked a federal court to order all charges against him brought by Fulton County, Georgia, prosecutors last week to be dismissed, since he says the charges relate to his then-role in the federal government. In a weekend filing, Meadows argues he should have immunity from the state's 2020 election interference criminal case because he was carrying out his duties as a federal official working for ... Donald Trump. The filing argues that his actions arose only because he was serving Trump as a close White House adviser." MB: I doubt this motion will succeed. And personally, I think it's a bad "loo" for Meadows to formally declare he should not be held responsible for his actions.
Jennifer Rubin of the Washington Post explains several reasons that efforts of various Georgia defendants, including Donald Trump & Mark Meadows, should not be successful in their attempts to remove the cases against them from state to federal court. (Meadows has already filed to remove the case.) For one thing, "Neither Trump nor Meadows ... had any constitutional duties regarding state certification of Georgia's own election. The Framers parceled out election duties to the states, the electoral college and Congress, but not the president. Moreover, in seeking removal, a defendant must also show that he has a 'colorable' defense under federal law, such as immunity. [That is, they must have a federal defense against the charges, which they don't.]... Federal Judge Emmet Sullivan in Washington, D.C., held last November, 'If Former President Trump disrupted the certification of the electoral vote count..., such actions would not constitute executive action in defense of the Constitution.'" Thanks to Ken W. for the link.
Katherine Faulders, et al., of ABC News: "Appearing to contradict ... Donald Trump's primary public defense in the classified documents case, former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows has told special counsel Jack Smith's investigators that he could not recall Trump ever ordering, or even discussing, declassifying broad sets of classified materials before leaving the White House, nor was he aware of any 'standing order' from Trump authorizing the automatic declassification of materials taken out of the Oval Office, sources familiar with the matter tell ABC News.... ABC News has also reviewed an early draft of the prologue to Meadows' book ... about his time serving as Trump's chief of staff..., which includes a description of Trump having a classified war plan 'on the couch' at his office in Bedminster, New Jersey, at a meeting attended by Meadows' ghostwriter and publicist, but not by Meadows himself. The reference to that document being in Trump's possession was removed before the book was published. Multiple sources tell ABC News Meadows acknowledged to investigators that he asked that the paragraph be changed, and that it would be 'problematic' had Trump had such a document in his possession. Sources tell ABC News that Meadows told special counsel investigators that he did not discuss making those edits with Trump." ~~~
~~~ Jamie Gangel, et al., of CNN (Aug. 18): "In the days since the FBI seized classified and top secret documents from Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort, the former President and his allies have claimed that Trump had a 'standing order' to declassify documents he took from the Oval Office to the White House residence. But 18 former top Trump administration officials tell CNN they never heard any such order issued during their time working for Trump, and that they believe the claim to be patently false.... 'Nothing approaching an order that foolish was ever given,' said John Kelly, who served as Trump's chief of staff for 17 months from 2017 to 2019. 'And I can't imagine anyone that worked at the White House after me that would have simply shrugged their shoulders and allowed that order to go forward without dying in the ditch trying to stop it.' Mick Mulvaney, who succeeded Kelly as acting White House chief of staff, also dismissed the idea and told CNN he was 'not aware of a general standing order' during his tenure." ~~~
~~~ Summer Concepcion of NBC News: "Former Vice President Mike Pence ... said Sunday he did not know of any 'broad-based effort' by ... Donald Trump to declassify documents before he left the White House.... '... I don't have any knowledge of any broad-based directive from the president,' he [said]. 'But that doesn't mean it didn't occur, I just -- it's just not something that I ever heard about.'" MB: This "secret declassification" defense has never made sense. Everyone who has access to government documents has to know the current classification status of each document. Unless there was a general government-wide email announcement every day like, "Okay, the Prez took today's Presidential Daily Briefing to his residence so you can post it on your Facebook page and talk about it with Putin," then the PDB remained, as it should be, classified.
Arlette Saenz of CNN: "President Joe Biden is preparing to blanket the airwaves with a $25 million television and digital ad campaign in battleground states this month as Republicans are set to face off in their first presidential primary debate. The first minute-long ad, titled 'Fought Back,' which was first obtained by CNN, has an economic focus, marking the campaign's latest effort to improve voter perceptions about Biden's handling of the economy. It also makes explicit reference to ... Donald Trump, as Democrats attempt to tie GOP candidates at this week's debate to Trump's 'MAGA agenda.'"
Shawna Mizelle of CNN: "Republican Sen. Bill Cassidy described the case against ... Donald Trump for allegedly mishandling classified documents as 'almost a slam dunk' and said he thinks Trump should drop out of the 2024 presidential race. '... He will lose to Joe Biden, if you look at the current polls,' he told CNN's Kasie Hunt on 'State of the Union.' 'I think any Republican on that stage in Milwaukee will do a better job than Joe Biden. And so I want one of them to win...," the Louisiana senator said. The comments from Cassidy, who was one of seven GOP senators who voted to convict Trump in 2021 at his second impeachment trial, mark some of his strongest criticism of Trump to date. They come as the various charges against Trump continue to dominate the GOP primary, with the former president widely viewed as the party's front-runner."
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Amy Wang & Josh Dawsey of the Washington Post: "... Donald Trump intends to skip the first Republican presidential primary debate in Milwaukee on Wednesday and instead plans to post a prerecorded interview with former Fox News host Tucker Carlson that will be released that night, according to a person briefed on the matter. Trump advisers said the interview had already been recorded. It is not yet clear where the interview will appear. Carlson has started a show on X, formerly called Twitter, but Trump sees the platform as a rival to Truth Social, which he helped create." MB: "Create"? How about "copy from Twitter"?
Katelyn Polantz of CNN: "Prominent conservative legal scholars are increasingly raising a constitutional argument that ... Donald Trump should be barred from the presidency because of his actions to overturn the previous presidential election result. The latest salvo came Saturday in The Atlantic magazine, from liberal law professor Laurence Tribe and J. Michael Luttig, the former federal appellate judge and a prominent conservative who's become a strong critic of Trump's actions after the election. Not all in the legal community agree -- and what the scholars are proposing would need to be tested in court.... They and others base their arguments on a reading of part of the 14th Amendment, a post-Civil War provision that excludes from future office anyone who, previously, as a sworn-in public official, 'engaged in insurrection or rebellion ... or [had] given aid or comfort to the enemies' of the government.' The pair write: '... both of us concluded some years ago that, in fact, a conviction would be beside the point. The former president's efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election, and the resulting attack on the U.S. Capitol, place him squarely within the ambit of the [14th Amendment's] disqualification clause, and he is therefore ineligible to serve as president ever again.'" (Also linked yesterday.) ~~~
~~~ Gerard Magliocca in the Washington Monthly: "To address this pressing problem, at least one secretary of state with the authority to make candidate eligibility rulings under state law must declare that Trump cannot appear on that state's presidential primary ballot.... A swift declaration by a secretary of state ... will get the eligibility litigation started sooner and give the [Supreme Court] Justices more time to consider the matter before voters in Iowa and New Hampshire go to the polls. This would be a non-partisan act to ensure an orderly election. When the Justices hear the Trump challenge, they must rule on the merits. Any attempt to dodge the heart of Section Three by dismissing a proper case as non-justiciable or on some tangential ground would be disastrous." ~~~
~~~ Ned Foley on Election Law Blog: "The new essay in The Atlantic by Judge Luttig and Larry Tribe significantly raises the risk, in my judgment, that Democrats in Congress will attempt to prevent Trump from being inaugurated on January 20, 2025 if he wins the election in November 2024." Foley suggests Congress pass legislation to avert the likelihood of "Constitutional Armageddon." MB: Good luck with that.
More on Rudy's desperate pleas to the Biggest Deadbeat: ~~~
~~~ Maggie Haberman & Ben Protess of the New York Times: "Rudolph W. Giuliani is running out of money and looking to collect from a longtime client who has yet to pay: ... Donald J. Trump. To recover the millions of dollars he believes he is owed for his efforts to keep Mr. Trump in power, Mr. Giuliani first deferred to his lawyer, who pressed anyone in Mr. Trump's circle who would listen. When that fizzled out, Mr. Giuliani and his lawyer made personal appeals to the former president over a two-hour dinner in April at his Mar-a-Lago estate.... When those entreaties largely failed as well, Mr. Giuliani's son, Andrew, who has an independent relationship with the former president, visited Mr. Trump at his club in New Jersey this month, with what people briefed on the meeting said was the hope of getting his father's huge legal bills covered.... For the better part of a year, as Mr. Giuliani has racked up the bills battling an array of criminal investigations, private lawsuits and legal disciplinary proceedings stemming from his bid to keep Mr. Trump in office after the 2020 election, his team has repeatedly sought a lifeline from the former president.... And even as the bills have pushed Mr. Giuliani close to a financial breaking point, the former president has largely demurred...." (Also linked yesterday.)
Tobi Raji of the Washington Post: "Law enforcement authorities were searching this weekend for a Proud Boys member who had been scheduled to appear in federal court in Washington, D.C., on Friday for sentencing after he was convicted in connection with the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.... An FBI wanted poster says Christopher Worrell, 52, of Naples, Fla., violated 'conditions of release pending sentencing on federal charges.' The bureau asked anyone with information about Worrell's whereabouts to contact their local FBI office or the nearest American embassy or consulate." MB: Naples, huh? Maybe he took a swamp boat into the Everglades & an alligator jumped up & et him.
Presidential Race 2024. Andrew Zhang of Politico: "The Trump campaign and MAGA world on Saturday blasted Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis for remarks appearing to label some of the former president's supporters 'listless vessels.'... 'A movement can't be about the personality of one individual,' DeSantis said [in an interview]. 'If all we are is listless vessels that's just supposed to follow, you know, whatever happens to come down the pike on Truth Social every morning, that's not going to be a durable movement.'" MB: Calling Trumpbots listless vessels is deplorable. They're more like "selfish, aggrieved losers."
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Russia's Luna Lander Crash-Lands on the Moon. Kenneth Change & Anton Troianovski of the New York Times: "A Russian robotic spacecraft that was headed to the lunar surface has crashed into the moon, Russia's space agency said on Sunday, citing the results of a preliminary investigation a day after it lost contact with the vehicle."
News Lede
AP: "Hurricane Hilary roared toward Mexico's Baja California peninsula early Sunday as a weakened but still dangerous Category 1 hurricane likely to bring 'catastrophic and life-threatening' flooding to the region and cross into the southwestern U.S. as a tropical storm, the National Weather Service said."
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Reader Comments (19)
So Trump will forgo the "Debate" for a recorded show with Tucker Carlson. With Tuckers' miniscule internet exposure it's not clear who will benefit more from this. Hopefully neither.
I was so looking forward to the brilliance and charm of a trump/
desantis debate.
Oh well, I have some banned dvds from the local library, like
Kite Runner. Can't understand why the banners banned that one so
I'll have to watch it and find out.
For someone who remains constantly in the news, the Pretender is just not very interesting. Maybe that's where DeSantis' writers got the inspiration for their "listless vessel," descriptor, watching this loudmouth whose favorite travel mode is a golf cart call other people "low energy." It is to laugh.
But the vessel he is is not without content. It contains a 21st century edition of most of what haver always been the country's inborn and inbred weaknesses: its tribalism, regionalism, racism, greed, hypocrisy and arrogance. Listless, maybe, but a vessel containing all the necessary elements for a stress test for democracy.
And that, I've concluded is why this uninteresting man remains in the news. The stories are not about him. They are about the stress test the nation is enduring. It's almost as if the Pretender were designed for it, probing as he does at all our moral, intellectual, Constitutional and legal weaknesses.
It's a stress test that seems to have no end.
And, while it has its entertaining and even comic elements, it's still a test hard to endure.
@Forrest Morris: There's a sexual assault in the story, so I guess that's it. While the assault is pivotal to the story, I don't think it gets a lot of ink. But I suppose learning that there's such a thing as sexual assault makes some people feel "uncomfortable," so of course ban the book.
@Ken Winkes: The "listless vessels" are Trump's followers. I expect that not many of them know what "listless" means or even what a "vessel" is -- maybe they think it's a sea-going ship. So I'm not sure how insulted they would be.
I reckon DeSantis' real mistake was not insulting the listless vessels but describing them with words they don't understand. It's impossible to imagine Trump using either word; I think he describes listless vessels as "great people."
A former colleague (someone I still don't want to risk antagonizing) stated on a conference call last week that, if Biden wins, she will flee the country. While that comment was made facetiously, it likely also reflects her feelings for Biden. Just as I can’t get my head around why anyone would trust the leadership of this country to the orange monster or to any of his competitors who are too timid to criticize him, I can’t understand the antipathy toward Biden or why his approval rating remains so low. The NY Times reports that republicans feel Biden is so weak that any candidate can beat him. What different worlds we live in.G.O.P. Views of Biden
Re the Washington Monthly opinion piece, recommending that at least one state secretary of state DQ DiJiT from that state's primary ballot so the issue can punt to the SCOTUS:
-- Why just the primary? Is that because it is closest in time? And if the SCOTUS lets DiJiT be on the primary ballot, can that state come back and de-list him from the general ballot?
-- What about other insurrectionists in the state? If no conviction is required, but the record shows a number of citizens of the states were involved, would not that secretary of state need to start a "DQ List" of people who can't hold federal office, just for consistency's sake? Sort of a "No Fly List" for ballot managers. And, would the ban go so far as removal from present office?
This suggestion seems promising, but the unintended consequences would be significant.
Patrick,
One of those unintended consequences?
The Senate and House might have to do without the likes of MTG, Gym Jordan, Scott Perry, Josh Hawley, and Ted Cruz.
Too terrible to contemplate?
I thought section 3 of the 14th amendment to the constitution
spelled out very clearly that trump cannot run for any public
office if he is found guilty of insurrection or giving aid and comfort
to those who have already been found guilty.
Is that why the trial keeps being pushed back until after the election?
Euphemism of the Day:
Reading a mail this morning from a broker writing about the great generational wealth transfer taking place as the Boomers die, I came across this:
“….those with sophisticated wealth needs….”
Maybe better: I think he meant those with far more money than they can ever use.
@Patrick: I think the idea is to get Trump off any ballots ASAP so voters will have a chance to pick a viable candidate.
As for other insurrectionists, the secretary of state (in states where the secretary has that power) certainly could ban them from running for office. The only case I know of where someone has been banned from holding public office was this one: NBC News: "A New Mexico judge ordered the co-founder of Cowboys for Trump removed from public office Tuesday over his presence at the U.S. Capitol during the Jan. 6 riot. State District Judge Francis Mathew removed Otero County Commissioner Cuoy Griffin from his elected position 'effective immediately' and banned him from seeking further public office, citing the 14th Amendment.... [CREW] and several New Mexico-based law firms represented a group of state residents in the lawsuit to remove Griffin as county commissioner.... Griffin ... was convicted in federal court this year [2022] of a misdemeanor for entering the Capitol grounds on Jan. 6, 2021, without going inside."
@Forrest Morris: According to Larry Tribe, whom I saw on the teevee yesterday, it is not necessary for a person to be convicted of a crime related to the insurrection to be ineligible for public office under the Fourteenth Amendment. An authorized official (judge, secretary of state) just has to "find" that the person participated. While Tribe & other legal scholars have argued that the Fourteenth Amendment clearly prohibits an insurrectionist from holding public office, the only 21st-century case (that I know of) that's been successful in removing an officer-holder is the New Mexico case described above. But there's nothing "automatic" about it. If Trump, via one means or another, is not allowed to appear on a state's ballot, you can bet he'll sue. If this avenue of getting rid of Trump 2.0 is pursued, it's going to be Clarence & Insufferable Sam, LLC, who decide.
@Ken Winkes: I have "sophisticated wealth needs." But, like most people, I just don't have sophisticated wealth. Or simple wealth. Any wealth at all. But my needs? Oh, baby!
Forrest,
Never saw the film “Kite Runner” but the book is a shattering experience. I won’t offer any spoilers, but my guess is that the book burners and movie banners (all Party of Traitor haters, natch) are affronted by the temerity of portraying Muslims as human beings and not shithole country targets for rifle practice.
Great book.
Laura, I appreciate your sharing about the baleful effects of our mainstream media trying to balance slightly left of center with slightly right of Genghis Khan. Remember, in old westerns the villains were always more interesting.
Here is a response I submitted today to the NYT. I don't share this sort of thing here often, but I thought this is apropos of current conversation around not prosecuting him because yadda.
If Jonathan Swift had written this piece, it would be titled "An Ode to Cowardice," and we would note with hilarity his argument that the American legal system, which at least pretends that all defendants are equal, should shirk its responsibilities as Congress did, but its doing so wouldn't be cowardly or something.
Boy, we'd think, Swift has done it again.
I understand that Republicans are real people, but one might be forgiven for forming an image of them not unlike The League of Justice, comic book heroes who save America from imaginary villain after imaginary villain. Step one: Create the villain. Step two: Name the villain say, Hillary. Step three: Demonstrate to a trembling nation that a woman who had work stuff on her laptop is the greatest threat to the nation since cyclamates.
If the show were done by Japanese illustrators, as our heroes, led by Super Turtle, solved shocking dilemmas that weren't on anyone's radar a year later, Godzilla would be zipping around the town in his fearsome golf cart, breathing fire on anyone who dared oppose him.
So, a manga with a text by Jonathan Swift. That's about how I see you and your "moderate" GOP villagers clinging to your teaspoons and your dignity while making the Swiftian claim that you still represent the heart of a party in which Mothra and Netanyahu would fit right in.
But let's bend the law (the Constitution yet, which right-wingers used to adore!) so that Godzilla might run out of Diet Coke and ketchup and maybe lose interest. Ganbatte!
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/20/opinion/donald-trump-republicans.html#commentsContainer
The “listless vessels” comment says a lot about why DeSantolini is working his way into Historical Footnote Land (sort of like the political version of the Island of Broken Toys).
So…Fatty’s thuggish followers are listless? Seriously? Languid? Dispirited? Lacking energy or enthusiasm? Has this idiot never seen videos of the “listless” mob that attacked the Capitol? Didn’t look very languid to me. These people were raging, rampaging psychos. They weren’t exactly depressed schlubs slumped in the BarcaLounger too tired to switch off the My Pillow infomercial.
On the other hand, perhaps he wanted to demonstrate his wonderful command of high school vocabulary test words. Maybe he thought it would make him look smaht. Pro tip: nothing makes you look stupider than using “big words” incorrectly. And not for nothin’, but since when do the MAGA thugs value scholarship or brains? Pearls before swine comes to mind. Know your audience, Ronito.
Now let’s consider the content of his little rant. Here he is, this wannabe dictator, denouncing the essential ingredient of authoritarianism driven by a single individual, the Cult of Personality. Perhaps at some level “Rob” (as the Orange Monster refers to him) realizes that he is about as far from igniting a cult of personality as, well, a listless vessel. First, you have to HAVE a personality.
And what we have here is more like the Dolt of Personality.
“Getcher one way ticket to Historical Footnote Land. Here ya go pal, enjoy the trip. Love those white go-go boots, by the way.”
AK, my guess is that if Ron is somehow elected, some English words will have new meanings. Just as James I redid the Bible (what's up with that?), Ron will redo Webster. It'll be Biblical.
Hi; I have been unable to improve upon the comments by the regulars and a few more newbies. Good job, everyone!
Laura: I am as angry as you at the names Biden is called. Every week in our newspaper, people remark on his "old man"isms. It's plain that they don't keep up with what the administration is doing, even those that fancy themselves informed. It's plain that most things do not get broadcast on that stupid network or its competitors. But the press goes right on reporting on the idiots on the right (interviewing the ones in IA that are in total fantasyland) and everything is treated as if these moronic, deluded people are legitimate citizens on that side. Right now they are reporting as to when or if the Golden Hind will present himself at the jail to be booked, and whether he gets a mugshot this time, and on and on and on. WHO CARES???? Honestly, if the left had the commercial networks and newspapers and so forth that the right has, they might still break their necks being "fair." I did go to that piece but didn't read it all, as it is the same old tripe. You'd think they would all be falling all over themselves to NOT elect the Golden Hind (even if eligible, which I have doubted for months, long before Tribe wrote about it. Probably you all did too-- the 14th was written about months ago...) and to write truth instead of trying to be noble and "fair." Ugh.
I ain't no lawyer, but this one seems right to me:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/20/georgia-trump-trial-move-federal-court/
Go ahead and call me out but I am so sick of the ads on Youtube by Hakeem Jefferies. He is so fake. He tries to come across as the mini-Obama, trying to emulate the same verbal cadence and inflections. He must be delusional to think that the Democratic base is as corrupt as the Republican base to just blindly follow the one with the mouth. Create your own schtick and own it!